Articles \ Former Satanist of 10 Years Exposes the Truth꞉ How He Got In and Why He Left for Christ

Former Satanist of 10 Years Exposes the Truth꞉ How He Got In and Why He Left for Christ

Posted by Ben McClintock, Thursday, 07 May 2026.

TRANSCRIPT

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The best thing you can do is to honestly know that these people are out there. Familiarize yourself enough with the belief system because I promise you they know everything about your faith and your belief system. So familiarize yourself with your adversaries. Echoes of the past whisper in the breeze. Warriors and rebels unchain our knees.

Special guest for you. I appreciate him being here. Jacob from Rise to Liberty podcast. I was on his show a few weeks ago and really enjoyed that. He brought up some things about himself that I was like, wow, that's interesting. I want to hear more about that. So Jacob's agreed to come on the Tree of Liberty Society show and talk to us about his story. So thank you, Jacob, for coming on with me.

Yeah, of course. Thank you so much for having me. So I've got a lot of good feedback with you on my show. So I'm very excited for this conversation. I think it's going to be fun.

Yeah, I think so, too. So some of the things that we covered on your program was satanic ritual abuse. And you talked about how you had actually been a member of the Church of Satan or you're just a Satanist. And then kind of got out of that. Tell us your story. Tell us the specifics and kind of just tell us how you got into that. And then we'll kind of ask some questions and get into how you got out of it.

Yeah. So I was never officially a member of any of the established organizations. I actually did at one point send off for my membership for the Church of Satan, but I paid them money and I never heard back. So they just... Imagine that, Satanist didn't, it wasn't honest. Yeah, they got 50 bucks from me and never got my card or anything. So, you know, kind of bums me out now because it would have been a lot easier to, you know, hold up a membership card and, you know, Right. I would have been able to dissuade any doubt. But I mean, there's other things that I can talk about and stuff, kind of prove that I actually was a Satanist. Yeah. I was never a member of any of the actual churches, but I was a practicing Satanist for about 10 years. And it was a little over 10 years. So I started claiming Satanist at about the age of 19. Okay. And so, yeah, it was about 20, 29, in between 29 and 30 when I left. Okay. So that's...

What got you at 19? You're like, you know, usually by 19 folks, you know, kids have maybe gotten out of their goth stage. And so this was more of a serious decision, it seems like, as opposed to just teenage rebellion.

Right, right. So what got me was really, I just fell into the trap of Satanism being like the ultimate rebellion because I mean, I was, and still am, very rebellious. It's kind of just like imprinted on me as a person. And, you know, what's more rebellious than, you know, rebelling against God, you know. Right, yeah. Which is honestly odd because I didn't even believe in God, I was an atheist, right? So I wasn't a theistic Satanist. So I didn't worship Satan as a deity. So, belief in God, I guess, again, because I was actually raised LDS, ended up leaving the church at about 13, 14. I just started seeing some hypocrisy within the church, and, you know, young rebellious mind, I just, I couldn't process that. Sure. Make it work, and, you know, I still am confused about some of the hypocrisy that I saw within the church. So I left the church, but I was just some atheistic traps that I fell into. The tree of knowledge that the reason why Eve was tempted to begin with is because the snake was actually Satan that was giving us a chance, us as humanity, giving us a chance at free will. And so Satan was actually freeing us from God's enslavement, basically. And, you know, Satan is portrayed as the light bearer, you know, the knowledge giver. So this was just a trap I fell into. And, you know, it made perfect sense to me and a lot of the core beliefs, you know, the satanic commandments were all things that aligned with what I believed and also just made a lot of sense to me at the time. So, yeah, that's kind of why I fell into it.

How did you come across, like, what introduced you to, did you just Google and stuff or like what got you, I can see how the arguments kind of got you, but how did you even think to even look at that? If you're an atheist, what are you looking for Satan for?

So, like, like I said, Satan wasn't a deity to me so it was more of an idea than anything. And to look into it, so I knew about it before I was like looking into it before I was like looking for something. So I was kind of familiar with it, and then, you know, I'm not really sure what, like, pushed me in that direction to further read or get into it I wasn't really looking for a religion or for a new belief system. Yeah. But what got me was the book, the, the satanic Bible. So, I was familiar, like I said with some of the teachings and stuff, and I've always just been an autodidact, you know, I learn on my own I've always learned more outside of school than I ever did in school. Yeah. And so I went and picked up a copy of the satanic Bible and that's what got me.

So, huh. Gotcha. Yeah. Okay. So you kind of like on your own like almost like an independent, you know, individual where you're not joining any specific denomination. And, you know, at this time, maybe looking back at it because I've maybe I maybe I'm just not dealing with enough atheist or not, but it seems like I haven't come across a true atheist. Most atheists that I interact with are just they just hate God. Right. And so that they're not, you can't hate something you don't believe in. I don't hate Zeus, you know, and so to hate something, you have to believe in it to some extent at least. Did you kind of looking back, do you feel that that's more of what it was or did you really just or we more agnostic or like, no, I truly did not believe in God. I had no, no belief. No, no, wasn't just in believing them. No, I just didn't believe that God existed and it was more of like once we're dead, we're dead. And that that was it. There's no afterlife. Didn't really have an explanation other like for the creation of existence other than it just was random and it happened. Gotcha. Okay, so. And then that's this as you entered kind of you, you latched on, you read the satanic Bible and you said, this is, you know, this is now my belief system basically. And how does that develop over the next, you know, nine or 10 years? I mean, I definitely did just get more interested in the theology behind it because like I said, this is definitely, it wasn't a theistic belief. So, I did just become more familiar with theology I read a lot more branched out from theology. The satanic Bible read lots of different books on theory. And also, at this point to after a couple of years in got involved in the practicing of witchcraft. So, which, once again is kind of interesting because I, you know, didn't believe in, like, I didn't believe in the devil as an entity, nor God. So, looking back on it, it's like why be interested in performing a ritual. Right, you know, but that that part, like it, it started with me as it does with a lot of people and it's usually psychodrama, or at least, that's how it's sold in the beginning. Right. Right. So, that's, that's kind of psychodrama to what ends. Oh, to upset Christians. Oh, just or, or to any anybody to any anybody that would be upset at the outward appearance of and practice thereof Satanism. Right. So, which is just to get people's guts. Kind of, but it was definitely something I believed in it wasn't, it wasn't it that was like an added bonus to me. That was the cherry on top was you got to drive people on the wall. Right, right. So, yeah. So as an atheist, what did you think the rituals would would do and how did they, how in the under that mindset, how did you see them as working. So, like I said, like, as, as I was first introduced to them it. It wasn't doing anything other than it was just cementing my legitimacy as a Satanist, because I'm actually not just talking about it, I'm actually doing something about it. I'm, I'm with other Satanist doing the things that Satanists do. And so that's what it was in the beginning and as I got further into it later on. I realized that if evil exists then good has to exist. Right. And so later on, which we can get to but it was it changed, you know, what changed I'm not exactly sure because it was a gradual thing it wasn't just like overnight. All of a sudden I had a belief, it was a much, much later on, I ended up having a belief in in more like energies, not deities. If that makes sense so right. So backing up a little bit sorry I don't mean to hold your thought don't know you're fine with it. How did you start to get and why did you start to get involved with other Satanists. Well, because of just being involved with other people with similar interests. Gotcha. Okay. So just so kind of like a reason for anyone who wanted a community to go into church or kind of like you know or you're going to the game store and playing D&D right friends. This is just kind of like another like activity to do it. Right, right, you know I had, I had people I went to the bar with I had people that I went to concerts with. You know I had people that, you know, I would, you know, have discussions of reading with, you know, like, not necessarily a book club but you know friends that sports. Right, exactly. Same thing. Group of friends. So, amongst these group of friends were they talking to you about these like, do you think your relationship with them kind of helped to develop without maybe being obvious, because you probably had many of them. I'm just guessing, maybe you can correct me. The other individuals that you associate with probably had varying degrees of unbelief and belief and talking to them maybe started to develop your belief. Oh yeah, yeah, it definitely did I mean just, just like it does in any other group. Yeah, so that the one thing I think people tend to not quite understand is like how average and plain, most of this stuff is right. Yeah, it really is no different than anything else and most of the time, most people don't look like Satanist they don't act like Satanist you know they're literally your average everyday people. Right. It's dressing up in the witches hats and the. No, no. And there are people, but, but yeah I mean there there are literally people that look like you there's people that look like me and everywhere in between and, like, I mean there's families that are involved I mean there's, it's just like any other group, you know, so I think that is a common misconception. It's it's not all a bunch of redditors that, you know, are overweight with bad skin or something you know like it's, it's it's literally just just everybody and most, most, not all but most Satanists I would say are actually decent people, even though I strongly disagree with what they believe, you know, I strongly disagree now with the beliefs. But like your average person I mean, I just genuinely have a have a belief that most people are good. Even people I disagree with. So, probably set them up to be not all. You would think that that mindset and that attitude would set you up to be easily manipulated to do things that are wicked because you don't believe that there is good and bad. Would that be fair to say? Yeah, I mean it could. What kept me actually safe from a lot of these things though is my, my innate, like default to rebellion. It's just, it's so strong which is why I never wanted to join like a coven, because I had people asked me to start covens I had people asked me to join theirs. And I would go to meetings I would talk to these people but it was never. It was never of an interest to me because it's, you have to conform is the problem. I might like some aspects of some of the things that they would do. Right, right. Right. So, and in fact I actually had somebody on my show asked me one day if I had ever sacrificed any animals as Satanist and I said no, I never did, because I actually like animals. So, but I didn't know and did associate with people that did. So, and at the time, I never would have, but they did. They didn't see an issue with it I didn't see an issue with them doing it I saw an issue with me doing it. Right, okay. So it's that moral relativism, your truth versus my truth instead of that truth. Right, exactly. So, and that's just one of the cornerstones of Satanism itself is, is that moral relativism. And in fact, that's obviously one of the most dangerous parts of Satanism. One of the four most dangerous parts. So, for anyone who doesn't know the the four basic cornerstones of Satanism is, is egoism, moral relativism, social Darwinism, and eugenics. So those, those are the four cornerstones of any say of any genuine Satanist. So those are the things, all of them will believe in, if they're real, which is what you see the elites into you know the Epstein's and the elites in government that's some, all of those things are what they promote. Right, and that that's kind of the, the world we live in. I mean, think, think of, like, I mean when was the last time you, you know, ran into somebody that was a complete egomaniac, you know, like it's, it's way more common I think now especially post social media. You know it, it's kind of spreading like a wildfire almost, and I think that's done on purpose, but. They definitely, yeah, it definitely got me deeper into it. Just like, I mean if you're a sports fan, you're going to go to sports games right. Right. You're gonna, you're gonna start learning the players, you're going to start learning their stats. You know, you're gonna probably pick up a fantasy league, you know, these, these, these were all things. Like I said, just like any other group it's, it's not really that different than most any, any groups. So, in, in the concept but of course of course. Right, right, right, right, exactly. So, but yeah I mean they just functions like any other social group, any, any other club I guess. So, so as you develop that and you're developing these relationships, you start to shift over in believing in things like witchcraft and that kind of a thing. And so what's really interesting to me is when you talk to people that just claim to be, you know, Wiccans and whatnot, is they, they say, well this isn't Satanism, it's totally different, but Satanists always say that witchcraft is a part of it. And so, is that a deception of the Wiccans or do you, or what do you think that is? I believe so. Yeah. It's clearly connected. Right, right. In my opinion Wiccans were always part of Satanism is just kind of a. So, okay, just to back up a little bit. My opinion, right, most Satanist will argue that Anton LaVey is not a real Satanist. And my opinion, especially now, having gone through it. Been there, done that got a crappy t shirt and left. I think he is the most Satanist and the reason why is because he's done more for Satanism he's spread the ideology more than anyone else. Yeah, but the way I view him is a on ramp to the belief system. So, he's, he's the safe package right because it's just, it's just atheism right no big deal. It's an atheist club so you got people to hang out with you don't go to church. Right. I mean they do call it church, so, but it's not an atheist by themselves, doesn't go to church, right do this, so you're an atheist that gets to hang out with other atheists, right, exactly. So I mean he's, he's an on ramp, and the people that are the gateway to Satanism. Exactly. And I think Wicca is the same thing. I think it's a. I also believe the new age is the same thing. So, it is a, it is a just a package. That's a lot softer than some of the more hardcore Satanist groups out there. But as you develop in each of those different entryways those on ramps, they all go to the same place. Right. And they, and at the core and most of them all believe the same thing. Right. And most people I will say, usually stop at the entry point, right, like, that's that's where I'll say, conservatively, 70 to 75% of most people stop there. Right, like that's just where they stop. It's that, well actually I would, I would even say, probably 65 to 70% stop there. Right. That's just kind of where people take it, and that's that's as far as they ever go. Now they might like really dedicate themselves to that. Right. But they're, they're not going to dive deeper into the practices, they're not going to dive deeper into the rituals, the theology, they're not, but I mean they really dive into it right like they decorate their home with satanic artwork and, you know, they get into other tangentially related subjects and stuff, you know, sometimes you see a lot of people into the oddities and curiosity collecting, which I'm not trying to throw that community under the bus because that's not an automatic thing. Okay. But you'll you'll see, you know, definitely people, a lot of people into heavy metal music. You see a lot of people into pop music too though so you know it is. It's a very wide interest amongst these people right because it's not just a one type of person. So, it's kind of hard to nail it was effective you've got to grab people from wherever they're at, you bring them in that way. Right. And plus people, people believe in this stuff and they, they joined for completely different reasons, you know, there's all sorts of reasons, very few people actually that I ran into joined the Church of Satan, because of the same reasons I did. Granted, I did run into some people that were super rebellious, and that's how it started for them as well, but it wasn't super common. So there are people that joined not out of rebellion. Well, because a lot of people are honestly very straightforward about their hatred of God. Okay, so that's still rebellion, but yeah, yeah I guess it could be a rebellion. I just view rebellion, there's, there's just rebellion and unjust rebellion. Gotcha. It's like there's just authority and unjust authority. Gotcha. So I kind of separate the two. So, I would, I would view somebody as a hatred towards God is more of a unjust rebellion. Sure. So, that that's just my personal take on it, but. But yeah, it's, as, as I got deeper into it, you start to realize a lot of these different belief systems like the Wiccans, like, granted I'm not going to go hanging out with Wiccans, if I'm a Satanist, but I don't like discount them like they, they couldn't be apart, right, like they, but granted the Wiccans don't really hang out with the Satanists and the Satanists don't really hang out with the Wiccans, but there is tons of crossover. Same, same with the New Age, but New Age is packaged as like hippies right, you know, right. But once again there's tons of crossover. So it's fundamental principles are all the same. Right, right. Yeah, those core beliefs, the egoism, the moral relativism, the social Darwinism, and eugenics, typically. So, they usually just take, take different form though so like amongst the New Age like abortion is really big, right, and abortions big amongst all the groups but, you know, typically it's the, the liberal mentality and I mean the new liberal not traditional liberals. So the, the neo liberals or 100 liberal. Right, right. So the, the neo liberal really pushing abortion, or it's not a board in, in this Satanist circles it's pro abortion in the New Age movement, it's women's health care, right, right, like the different framings matter. So yeah, it's, they really are all the same at their core beliefs, which is what matters, right, because that's what makes it satanic or not. Right. So you're getting into the kind of the Wiccan but but you are doing it from the satanic aspect. So, that is how far into like, how many years is it that you've gone from atheist to more spiritual or whatever you want to call it to the, with the Wiccans and being spiritual. About five. So about half my time. And so that develops and then what, what is going on during that time for the next you know from that. Is there a, is there a, and the evolution, for lack of a better word, again so you evolve from being a, an atheist to a spiritualist and then you go from a spiritualist to before you start working out. But I still kind of didn't like I believed in energies, and I believed in like positive and negatives that the yin yang, but I'm still not like believing in God, right, or Satan as a deity. I do believe. There's forces out there and it's, you know, Right. However it works. Right, and it's kind of witchcraft being the manipulation of these energies to whatever means that you are intending for whatever means, whatever, whatever intention you have. So, you know, love spells spells for money. The selling your soul thing it like it's it's real but it's not real. It's not how Hollywood portrays it but it's right, right, right exactly it's it's more of a passive thing it's because, first of all, I don't believe you can actually sell your soul to begin with, because your soul is not yours to sell. You know, it's, it's, it's God's, so, but you're selling your actions and you're promising allegiance to what you're, what you're doing. Correct. Correct. And there's a lot of, like, for instance, when you, I don't know I've, I've kind of gone back and forth on this because like I never, you know, said like, Oh Satan if you promise me this I'll do this, you know, but I have heard people say things like that. So, here's another aspect that I think people need to understand about Satanism is that a lot of this is incredibly decentralized. Okay, so there's granted there's the organized structures right like you have the Church of Satan you have the satanic temple. Canada, Mexico even, you have all sorts of cults. Right? And then you have a bunch of people who do what they want, but you also have these like, unorganized groups. And what I mean by unorganized groups, it's kind of like the difference between the organized and unorganized militia. Right? So like, and that's what I mean by organized and unorganized is in the same context is where is in literally a high school kid can pick up the satanic Bible and start a coven. Right? That doesn't mean they're any less Satanist than the church of Satan. Right. They're all part of it. Right. And so that's how like, there's, there's been groups that were started in the eighties that died in the eighties. There are groups that started in the seventies that are still around today. And this is a really important aspect and it's the decentralized nature of why it's so difficult to one pin down because people can really make it whatever they want. Such organizations like seven, six, four is a great example of this because you can read and I don't necessarily recommend this because it will drive you mad to read the writings of seven, six, four. Uh, people should familiarize themselves with it because they are a real threat. However, to read their theology is a completely different thing and that's what will drive you nuts. But there are several different leaders of seven, six, four groups and oh nine a the order of nine angles. Um, there's several different versions of this and they're all oh nine a or seven, six, four. Right. Like they're all part of the same group, but they all believe something different. Some of them radically different. Some of them slightly different. Okay. All of them are Satanist. Okay. And they're not any less or more Satanist than each other. They're just different. That's it. So that's, that's a big key component to a lot of this. Um, is the decentralization, you know, and it's kind of hard to wrap your mind around if you've never been in it. Right. Right. Um, but that's, that's what it is. They, they are just as Satanist as each other. That to me seems to be, to be part of the deception as well because you have the aspect of that makes it look like, oh, it's just a bunch of goth kids that are being stupid and trying to, you know, get people's goats. And then, but you, but we have the reality of a global satanic ritual abuse network that involves people in every level of government. And so, um, the, the apparent decentralization of it, um, gets people to focus on the things that are, uh, no threat and get them to pretend like the big threat isn't even real. Right. Right. Um, and I mean, there's, there's levels to this as well. Um, not every Satanist is created equal, you know, not every Satanist is dangerous is what I would say. Right. Um, is it, it's kind of like with in, if you've read the book, like proofs of a conspiracy or, um, memoirs illustrating the history of Jacobinism, talking about the levels of, um, the Illuminati and how in the very beginning, you know, it's, it's pro God. And then you work your way up to saying that the, you know, churches are corrupt and then you get into being anti God and that, and so you have these different levels and, and, and you work your way up to the different levels. Is it kind of like, kind of like that in Satanism? Yeah. Yeah. That, that's correct. Uh, that, that would be a good analogy. Um, so in, in fact, um, I actually just pulled up, um, there's, this is something I, I, I pretty much agree with. I think this is pretty accurate. So this is from Dr. Colin A. Ross, um, who's a well-known expert in dissociative identity disorder and, uh, he treats, uh, or has treated patients of, or survivors of satanic ritual abuse. Um, in his, people know disassociative disorder is the modern term for multiple personality disorder, correct? Correct. Correct. Um, he actually wrote a book about how to treat, uh, survivors of satanic ritual abuse. And, uh, in chapter five of his book, uh, he actually breaks down the five levels of Satanism. Um, level one is the dabbler, um, kind of music, aesthetics, rebellion. Uh, that, so that's just like your entry level, your atheists, your curious teenagers. Um, level two is a self-styled, uh, isolated practitioners, occasionally dangerous, rarely networked. Uh, level three is optimized non-criminal groups. So like the church of Satan, temple of set, the satanic temple. Uh, level four is organized criminal networks, um, using satanic framing. Um, this is usually when, you know, the SRA starts to kick in. Uh, and then level five is multi-generational families. So these are about the five levels of Satanism. Um, if I had to put myself anywhere is between two and three kind of floating back and forth, uh, like the, the non-criminal organized groups and the self-styled practitioner. So that's kind of, kind of where I sat on this scale. Um, cause like I said, I had the involvement of some of the organized groups. I would go to meetings, um, but I... Did you know people? Did you associate with those that would be in the, maybe the top two groups? Um, I did meet some people who claim to be part of multi-generational families. Um, I, I had no way of like verifying that. Sure. Um, some of these people, uh, now I, I was definitely aware of some people who participated in criminal activity as Satanists. Um, now those people are legitimate and they exist and there's quite a bit of, there, there's quite a few of them. Um, they're more common than you would think, but, um, And you're in Utah. So this is your experience in Utah. Correct. Yeah. As a Utah Satanist. Right. Um, As a Utah Satanist, it's bigger than you would expect. Yes. Yes. Um, and I stand by that wholeheartedly. Um, so of course there's your, what you would envision as a Satanist, right? The black clothes, the, the tattoos, the, you know, pentagram stickers on their car or whatever. Right. Right. There are those people and there are, you know, I mean, we're, we're talking from minor crimes to all the way up to like breaking and entering assaults, battery, sexual crimes. I mean, some really, really nasty people. All done in the name of Satan. Yeah. Or just done because they wanted to, you know, which is also part of the name. Do as thou wilt. Right. Exactly. Um, and also the, the part of hedonism, like it feels good. I just wanted to like, you know, um, also it's part of social Darwinism where I feel as though I have to step on people to be able to, uh, get ahead in life. Uh, I have to actually cause harm to other people to push them down. So I will go up on the social ladder. Right. Um, and there were other people, um, that were less like your standard Satanist or the Satanist that you would envision, um, that were interested in financial crimes. Um, you know, a lot of white collar stuff, um, insurance fraud, these sorts of things. These are the people that you wouldn't think were Satanist just by the way they looked. Um, or they even actively pretended to be other people, um, pretended to be church goers. Um, that's what my next question was going to be. You see people that are, you know, active in different churches while they're actually saying this. Yeah. Because I mean, it's, and you knew these individuals. Yes. Yes, of course. Um, attended several meetings with them. Uh, I didn't spend a whole lot of time with them because I actually look like a Satanist, you know, you know, so at the time I had long hair, you know, I still had the beard I'm covered in tattoos, you know. Um, and so a lot of these people, like I could walk up to them today, many of whom are still practicing. Um, at least as far as I know, uh, granted I'm removed from the circles so I don't know who attends and who doesn't, but, um, I can only imagine most of these people are still practicing. So I could, I could approach them and they would pretend not to know me, you know, I mean, well, not only that, but they're clean cut. I'm so they don't want to look like you knew somebody that looked like, correct. Correct. I mean, they're not, they're not going to admit that they know me because then why would they know me? Right. How do you know that guy? Exactly. So that's, and then not only that, but you would mention in our interview that you knew people that were in, uh, an elected office. Yeah. Yeah. So people in government, people in religion, was that local offices, state offices or local and state, local and state. Gotcha. So, um, now the, the, the people that held office at state, they, they were involved at Capitol Hill. So none, none of the, the, um, house or the Senate or anything, I didn't see any people that actively held, um, a state level position. Now I had people through the grapevine tell me of some people attending of which no, I will not name. Um, this is a safety issue, but I cannot confirm any of those people, um, at, with my eyeballs now. But you being a two and a three level of Satanist versus a four and a five, you're not going to really have that crossover I'd imagine. Right. And, but I can confirm that there are people that I associated with that were involved up at Capitol Hill in various, uh, capacities. Gotcha. So, um, we're, we're talking lobbyists, we're talking, um, clerks, staffers, this sort of thing. Yeah. So that's, that's something I can confirm with my own eyeballs. Um, but that's, uh, that's where you start getting into the scary people. That's even at like more of my most wild moments. I still didn't want to associate with these people because, well, some of the things that they were involved in. I mean, I was pretty liberal to the point, you know, I mean, I was going to a bar when I was 19. Um, you know, I was, uh, living a sex, drugs and rock and roll lifestyle, man. Like I was all for it. Right. The hedonism was great. Um, I definitely experimented with lots of drugs and man that the people that that brings around is interesting. I bet. Um, so, but there's, there's like still a certain level of people. I didn't want to be around. I've been around people that have killed people. I've been around, uh, and these are Satanists and non Satanist. Um, you know, I, I had never really judged somebody's past. I mainly judge what are they doing now? You know? Um, even, even to this day, you know, um, some of the best friends I ever had in my life were felons. So, um, not all of them, not all. I would say technically, right. There's been lots of articles talking about how the average person commits three felons felonies a day. So correct. We're, we're all felons according to the right. Right. And, and also when, when the state says that somebody is a bad person, I'm, I'm an anarchist. So I don't, I don't listen to the state most of the time anyway. Right. So, but yes, uh, there were, that would make sense to your separation of not saying just because of your own aversion to certain activities. Correct. They're going to see that not invite you, or you're just going to say no to being part of certain things, which being not part of those things will keep you away from doing other things. Right. So being at that two and three kind of probably kept you pretty safe of some of the more dastardly deeds. Right. Um, but yeah, it's what I can confirm and what I will stand behind no matter what is these people in these activities do happen. Yeah. So there's a lot of things I can't, um, I can't confirm with my own eyeballs. Um, but other people have been able to confirm these. Um, this is why, because of what I do know and what I had experienced, I am definitely more open to hearing a survivor stories. Um, and I'm probably more willing to believe certain things that I guess other people who hadn't experienced this side, um, probably aren't willing to accept so easily. Makes it more real. Um, yeah, yeah, it does. But you might also be able to kind of spot a BSer as well because not all of the stories are true. Right. A hundred percent. Um, in fact on, on my channel, um, I am actually very incredibly picky about any survivor that I have on. Um, but the survivors that I have had on, I wholeheartedly believe and we'll stand behind them. Now, if somebody else doesn't want to believe who I've had on my channel, that's up to them because I do present my shows in a way that I want the listener to be able to decide for themselves. Right. So I make my opinion be known, but I don't want to influence somebody else's opinion. And, and yeah, I can, I can definitely point out somebody, especially somebody who says that they were a Satanist that aren't, or somebody that says that they were involved deeper than they were. Um, you know, I can easily point those people out, ask them a few questions. Um, and yeah, survivors, I mean it's kind of a tricky thing, right? Um, it's, it's hard to vet these things cause I wasn't there. Right. Um, but I would say that I'm more attuned than your average person. Gotcha. Well, it helps you weed through I'm sure. Um, so you're witnessing these things, um, kind of tell us to the height of your involvement and then how that led you to getting out of it. So the, the one thing I'll say is, uh, any sort of, uh, I guess what the law would consider criminal activity, um, that the way that it happens, I never experienced standing around in the woods in a cult robe and performing in a legal activity. Okay. It typically happens, uh, uh, well in homes, right. In, in the first place. Um, I had been in the woods in a robe before. So those rituals do happen like that. Um, but once again, that's kind of the psychodrama. Um, typically drugs would be involved, but any criminal activity would be, it would happen closer to like how a biker gang would perform criminal activities. It's the individuals. It's not the group, if that makes sense. So a way to be plausible liability and a way to protect you from searches and seizures without a warrant and that kind of stuff. Correct. So, um, and you know, protect you from like Rico, you know, so, um, and even though it was a network, there would be ability to plausible deniability so that it couldn't be accused of a conspiracy. Right. To get you under Rico. Right. And this, this was actively thought about. Right. So, um, I would be, sometimes I would be with Satanist with the intent of, you know, selling some drugs or something. Um, so to the, the, the level in which I was, I mean, I, I'm not sure exactly how much more you would want to know, but I mean, that's pretty much that it was almost, how would I explain it? It's almost like a party, I guess. Like I said, I was all about the sex, drugs and rock and roll. Yeah. Pretty much. Did you ever get to a point where you move on from the metaphysical to, you know, I believe, you know, I am worshiping the son of the morning. Um, for you. I, I definitely believed that I was trying to self manifest a negative energy. So that's because what was the purpose of manifesting a negative energy? I just to bring it into existence. Okay. So, because, and I still believe this to this day is that first of all, it's all about intention. Um, but the existence of God or Satan is brought on through us. Not, it doesn't happen to us. It happens through us. So, um, by trying to be more God-like, um, you know, if by trying to be like Christ, I am bringing into existence Christ, I am bringing the good into this earth by, uh, repenting, um, by my actual prayers, by trying to actually be a better person every day. And it's the same thing as a Satanist. So I was trying to bring this negative entity at the time that I believe, which I now believe to be Satan, to be pure evil, um, bringing it into existence by my actions. So. You do evil so that evil could exist. Right. But I didn't think like, oh, I am evil. I'm doing this evil thing. That's not how it was. I look back on it now and think it's evil. Um, but at the time I didn't, it wasn't like an active, like, oh, I'm evil. I'm doing this evil thing. You know, it's not how it registered in my brain. I don't even think Satan does that. I think that he believes that he's right. And that he's just angry and trying to rebel. And so I don't think any, I don't think that's very cartoonish right. That's, and that's what they want us to believe is as this cartoonish, you know, mustache twirling bad guy. Whereas most people that are evil believe that they're doing good. Right. I actually believe that as well. Um, now, like I said, there were some people, um, there was a, a person I had ran into one time, uh, who was a grave robber and, and this, this was a person that was just moving through town. Um, they were kind of a drifter. Um, and this person was doing things with the intention of being evil, but you could feel that on him. Like it was unlike anything you've ever felt. Um, just like if you've ever been in the presence of somebody who's like a really good person, you just, it emanated from them. This person emanated darkness. So there are those people that, that do that. Um, and I came into contact. They're the rare exception. They're not the guy that pretends to go to church while he's actually a Satanist. Right. Um, a lot of these people do, at least my experience, a lot of these people, even if they are a Satanist, they, they do think that they're on the right side of history or the right side of the spiritual battle or the right side of, you know, whatever we're experiencing as life. So, so yeah, a lot, a lot of them do think they're doing right. Now some of the people, I would actually argue that some of the people that were more into the white collar crimes were probably more in tune with actually doing evil. Um, I never, at least I don't remember anyone saying like, Oh, I'm doing evil. Like you said, like the cartoony like tackling which, you know, um, I can't think or remember of any, any instance of that happening, but I mean, there definitely were people that were more in tune with doing evil for evil sake. I mean, they probably came across to the people that they knew in the church that they were attending as good upstanding people. They probably, you know, people thought that they were, that they could see some light in them, but they were, but they were deceiving the entire time. Right. Well, and it's, it's interesting too, because like, I mean with, uh, politicians are always a great example because there's a lot of politicians that have deceived a lot of people before. Um, and a lot of people believed in them. So, and it turns out, Oh no, they were actually lying, you know, that rarely happens in politics, but it does. Yeah. And here's another thing too, is there's a, like, granted, I, I assume, um, that I was told a lot of truths as a Satanist amongst the Satanist, but I was also told a lot of lies. I mean, I lied, you know, there was, there was a lot of things that I was willing to lie about, um, that would get me into some of these other circles, right. Um, it's just kind of what comes with the territory, you know? Um, and it's, it's kind of funny thinking about it. This just kind of popped in my head. It's, it's kind of like, it's like a bunch of people bragging to each other, you know, it kind of reminds me of, uh, wow, what's that movie? Um, American Psycho with Christian Bale, when they're all showing their cards to each other and they're just bragging about their cards. That's kind of what it's like. It's like, Oh, I'm so evil. Look at this. Or like, check out my new tattoo. You know, like it's comical in that sense, because it's just, it's just a bunch of, honestly, like, I, I kind of feel bad for a lot of people that believe this stuff. Now I feel bad. Um, I think a lot of people are lost and hurt and misguided and lied to. Um, but it's, it's just kind of like a bragging circle almost. Um, like look at how satanic I am, you know? I don't, it's yeah. It's that old Monty Python sketch where they, these guys are sitting around there, they're older and they're rich and they're talking about how poor they were when they were kids. Right. It's like that. Right. Exactly. Exactly. Um, and you know, there's, there's, there's also a hierarchy as well. You know, there's people that have been into it longer or the, the older Satanists, right. And they're kind of looked up to as, you know, the elders. Um, and so I don't know, it's, it's just, it's so common and it's, it's kind of hard to explain it just because it is so common. It's like not any different than any other group other than like what the subject is. Right. Right. Right. Um, so yeah. I think that's something that will blow most people, blow people away the most is how common it is because they think that it's either just a few teenage kids being goofy and are rebellious and then, you know, and then you have, um, a few people in, in, in high positions that are doing things like Epstein did. Um, but it's, but, but you're saying that it's much more prominent amongst and it's at all levels, especially like you're talking about all levels of, of society. But with those five levels of Satanism that expands it some more because you're like, okay, this guy's a Satanist, but that doesn't mean he's level five or he's level one. It could be any one of those. Right. And I would say that the people that you need to be worried about, um, that anybody needs to be worried about. So once again, just real quick, uh, you've got level one, the dabblers level two, the self styled isolated practitioners, level three, the organized non-criminal groups, level four, the organized criminal networks using satanic, uh, framing. And then five is the multi-generational families. Um, or even there's allegedly multi-generational groups as well. Um, you know, uh, this would be like your Epstein networks, your, your Franklin scandal, these sorts of things. These are multi-generational groups, organized networks. Exactly. They're not necessarily related, but they might be cause there's, you know, a lot of incest and inbreeding and stuff. So, you know, they, they might be, they might not be. Um, and the, the overlap of activities of the things that, you know, what the, uh, with Epstein, with Franklin, with Glenn Pace memo, with the, you know, the, uh, what's the, the, the stuff in Southern California, they're all doing the same thing. They're all using the same lines. And so there's the idea that they're separate is ridiculous. Right. Right. And I mean, I, I genuinely believe like these, these high up groups, it's all the same network. It's just different branches, you know, it's like the, the Western branch, the Northern branch, you know, it's, it's just, it's, uh, it reminds me kind of of the analogy of the octopus. It's different tentacles of all the same animal, you know, um, organization, like you have chapters or you have wards or you have diocese, that kind of a thing. Exactly. A hundred percent. I think that's how it is. And that's kind of how Satanism works, but to like a more decentralized, like the further down the list you go. So like the, the lower the level, the more decentralized it gets, if that makes sense. Totally. So, um, so you were saying what of, of one of these levels that you people should be the most worried about? Yes. Uh, obviously number five, right. So, um, four, um, so these organized criminal networks, right. Um, these are going to be, in my opinion, your gang members, right. Gangs are inherently satanic. I mean, they're, they're throwing up, uh, all sorts of hand signals, right. Uh, they use certain symbols to communicate with each other. They have a ritual to get in and out. Right. So your street level gang, your biker gangs, like all of, all of these sorts of things, doesn't matter how they started or whatever. If there's somebody out there, you know, playing that card, uh, it doesn't matter how they started. You usually have one of those people that are connected to the level five. Right. You have a level five connection to four. Right. And then your level threes can be dangerous. Um, because sometimes you have people trying to get to these next levels. Um, other times you're probably going to run into somebody like me. She isn't, you know, I didn't have the intention of going out and causing mayhem to society. That was never my goal. Um, I knew people like that. I still know people like that, even though I don't associate with them. Um, I know people with the stated goal of causing mayhem, you know, like that's what they want for society. Um, most of them are locked up and you know, thank God I don't associate with them. But, um, these people do exist, you know? Um, but they, so the, they can be dangerous. Um, but this is where you start getting your people who, um, I mean, level three is PR, are people that take it seriously. It's more than just a dabbler. Okay. Your team dabblers can also be dangerous, right? Because I mean, all of these people can be dangerous just because they're trying to emulate something that they think about or they see on TV or whatever. Right. Um, your level two is probably going to be your least dangerous only because they're going to kind of want to lay low. Um, and this is going to be you just your average, your average Satanist, you know, it's such a weird thing to think about, right? Your average Satanist is just laying low. So, but they usually do it for them. Um, they might, you know, look like a goth, freaky dyed hair. Uh, you know, they, they'll wear a satanic shirt that has some offensive message, message on it or whatever, but they're not going to go any, yeah, right. They're not going to go anywhere past that. However, they're most likely going to be nice people. Um, not all most. Um, but yeah, that's, that's what I would say in that order. So it's, uh, And those levels though, they're, they're the deceptive because they, those lower levels, those less dangerous ones, they kind of give everyone else like, Oh, we don't have to worry. It's not, it's nothing to be worried about. It's not that big of a deal. And that's the deception I think. Yeah, it is. It is part of it. Um, it's like, and that this is what I think is deceptive of like LeVay and Satanism and why I think it's actually like the most satanic because with moral relativism, social Darwinism, eugenics and egoism, even from the get go, even level one, level two, doesn't matter at the very beginning of this journey for anyone, they will still think of themselves as better than, right. Uh, they'll think of themselves as having the ability to become a God. They will still hold the ability, um, or the, the mindset. I mean, uh, like they are better than, um, and the rest of society, the non satanic society is worse than and beneath them. And to, and not even just like, I'm better than you, but to the point, Satanists refer to non Satanists is the dead. So the reason why is because they view non Satanist as so brainwashed that they don't even understand what's happening in society, which to an extent is kind of true, but here's the deception, right? They take a true thing and then they push it in a particular direction. There's the, that's why I can control them. That's why I can do bad things to them because they're not right. And that starts at level one. So all of them are dangerous to a certain degree, right? Like there's always going to be that, like I'm, I guarantee, um, back in my day that, you know, like if, if I had a daughter and met me, I would not be letting my daughter go with me, you know? So, because could have shown up with the cops could have, you know, shown up pregnant, you know, any number of things. So, um, there's all, all of these people will be dangerous to a certain degree. Um, but also other people are dangerous as well. I knew several people that got in trouble, got in fights and did drugs that weren't Satanists. So, um, but this is being a bad guy isn't right. Exactly, exactly. Um, but these are dangerous particularly because of the teaching and that, that starts at level one, uh, that starts literally with the satanic Bible. So, um, but you still keep just to kind of like, I've got copies of the communist manifesto, not because I agree with it, but because you got to know your enemy. Well, yeah, a hundred percent. Um, I definitely keep a copy of that. Um, keep a copy of the satanic Bible, uh, the satanic rituals and the Necronomicon all because, um, what I try to do on my channel is try and educate people. And some of the best sources to teach about Satanism is from, you know, the mouth of babes. So, so, you know, I go directly to the source. Tell us about your path out. How did you go from being all in to saying, Hey, what, you know, I'm going to be a Christian now. Um, so towards the end, I mean, I was just getting older and I stopped partying as much. I stopped hanging out with as many friends. I got to a point where I was literally just going to work and coming home. Um, I was less interested in my social life. Um, now I was still heavily, I still heavily believed in these things. Um, at this point I was definitely more spiritual. Um, uh, to the, to the point where, you know, I, I believed that I could in fact manipulate enough energy to be able to make or manipulate life around me to a certain degree. Um, cause I never thought like, Ooh, I can cast spells like Harry Potter, like that magic doesn't exist. Right. But I could manipulate people. I could lie to people and I could get certain things done and, um, I can manipulate my surroundings enough in order to reach a particular end, right. That I, that I want. And I usually did it selfishly. So I'm, I'm less interested in hanging out with people. I'm more interested in just kind of living a quiet life. I don't want to go out and go party. Um, but I'm still involved in this now. Um, without releasing too much personal information to be able to, you know, narrow this down. Sure. You don't want to, you don't want to testify against yourself. Right. Exactly. Um, so it, it actually was not anything illegal per se, but I was dealing with the, the only thing I can, I can say is that I was dealing with a entity that I lived with. Um, and I, at the time I, I thought that they were just a terrible person. I didn't realize that I was literally dealing with evil manifested in a person, a true demon. Uh, so the one thing I can say is, uh, demons are real a hundred percent. Um, however, demons are, uh, meaningless unless attached to a human. They have no power unless they're attached to something in this world. Okay. So they, I didn't realize at the time, uh, when this was all happening that, um, I was dealing with a demon attached to a human. Um, but there was no human in this person left. Um, it was partially because of their horrible upbringing, but also because they are just genuinely the worst person I've ever met. Granted, I've met felons and people that have killed people up to this point. And I've met all sorts of terrible, really terrible people. And this is the worst person I've ever met. Um, well, I, I performed a ritual one night. Um, not going to say which one, but it was one that was going to cause a lot of pain and misery to them. It ended up backfiring because it was a demon. And so it basically ate it like breakfast and became a lot worse. Wow. And from that point forward, I realized what I was dealing with and that scared me so terribly bad because of what transpired after that, because it was just pure evil. And once I came face to face with pure evil, that that's just like a whole different thing. Once you come face to face with evil, you basically have to realize, well, this is pure evil. So pure good must also exist. And it was almost an overnight transformation where it's like, well, if, if this evil out there exists, then that good has to exist. And I don't want to be on this side because I saw what the evil was manifesting. Um, and I quickly, uh, was able to leave the situation where I was dealing with this person and was able to get away from that. And it, it took a few weeks, but then my mind mindset just started to change. I don't know what it was. Um, and then, you know, a few, I would say maybe about six months. Um, I just woke up one day and just, I knew I was then a follower of Christ. Wow. Yeah. Um, it, it was almost just like that. And then I realized from that point on, I've got to start repenting. Um, I've got, I've got a lot of makeup to do, you know? Um, I've got a lot of bad things that, uh, I was okay with at one point I am no longer okay with. Um, I've got a lot of things to make up for and, you know, there was, uh, self admittedly, you know, uh, this, this first overwhelming feeling of Christ will forgive me if I actually do the work. If I actually admit that he's my, uh, Lord and savior, then if I do the work, I will be forgiven. Um, and then what really kicked it into overdrive is meeting my wife. That's awesome. So I was, I was with her. It was at the beginning of our relationship and I was still a Satanist when we met and when we first started dating and it was in this transition period of after I had left the dealing with the space in which I dealt with this demon. Um, it was after leaving that when we first got together and within the first year of her and I being together and it got to a point where I realized I had to save myself and then I had to be the best man I possibly could be for her. So, I mean, that's So did you meet her within the Satanic circles or? No, no, no, no. Oh, okay. It's, it's really interesting though, um, without telling too much of her story. Sure. Um, she actually had her own experiences with witchcraft though. Um, and she, she kind of came at it from a different angle because, uh, she was really angry with God for a long time. Um, and so she was, you know, dabbling with witchcraft and stuff because she just strayed from the straight and narrow. Right. And, uh, that, that was actually something she wasn't actively practicing when we got together, but she was very familiar. She was still, uh, she was still practiced. Like she could have been practicing, um, when we had met, um, but she just stopped when we did. Oh, interesting. So, yeah. We both came across that roughly the same time. Right. And so now, um, we're both on our way to, uh, I, I believe we've just found our church and so, you know, we're heading in the opposite direction. We want to get a, uh, re-baptized, you know, and, uh, we're on a completely different path now. And I'm doing my show, uh, partially is, is partially, uh, me repenting is me coming out here and talking about this. Right. And, uh, granted, I do try to keep my personal relationship with finding Christ and stuff as separate as I can, because I don't, I don't want to be, I'm not a preacher, but that's not my role. Um, I don't feel like that's my place in life. Um, but what I do feel as though I can do is expose the truth about this satanic reality, I guess. Yeah. And so, um, yeah, most, most of my, you know, religious, uh, beliefs and everything, I try to keep as separate as possible. Granted, it does come up because of, well, it has to eventually, you know. It guides what we do. I do this, you know, I, my channel is, you know, we're not like, Hey, only this religion can watch my stuff, but at the same time, it's what guides me. And so I, you know, those things, I'll bring them up and talk about them. And so it's just the way it is. And so, um, cause we don't want to deny our faith either. Right. Right. That's this balance that we're not trying to, um, uh, force people into a certain direction, but we also are going to deny our faith. But, um, so well, that's, that's, so was there as you're coming across that, was there like a moment where you're like, how did you go from, cause you didn't ever believe as Satan, as the deity that you were worshiping, but you, you go from basically, you know, the spiritual aspect of Satanism to Christianity. What made you not go to like Buddhism or, you know, Hinduism or, you know, Eastern religion? Cause that, that is very connected to a lot of people in the, in the new age movement. But, but, but seen as more positive. And so what made you go to, to, to Christ? Did you have, you know, uh, uh, a Saul to Paul moment or what kind of, what, what was that all about? Um, you know, I'm, I'm not really sure. Um, I know part of it, you know, I picked up a Bible, you know, um, kind of like, it's, it's funny. I, the way I view it now is that I kind of went through like a scared, scared straight program, you know, like, like spiritually I was scared straight is like, I laugh about it now. It was terrifying when I went through it. Um, and the transformation of going from one belief to another is hard. Um, I still struggle every day and there's still, you know, aspects of my old belief system that I struggle with sometimes granted it's getting easier. Um, but there's just certain things I catch myself doing. I'm just like, no, exactly. Um, you know, it's, it's hard to teach an old dog, new tricks, but not impossible, but not impossible. Um, dog has to want to learn the trick though. Exactly, exactly. And there is a lot of desire to change on my ends, uh, and become better and become Christlike, um, as much as I possibly can and also to repent for the things that I feel as though I did wrong. Um, also partially, uh, or not partially, but also taking accountability for, you know, the things, whether I want to admit them or not, I can admit them to myself in Christ, you know, I can't hide it from him. So, uh, so how long has that been since you've, you've accepted Christ, you know, to, to now? It's been about four years, four years. Okay. So you got 14 years since this whole journey began basically. Yeah. Roughly. That is neat. Yeah. It's, uh, it's been a whirlwind, but you know, um, it tells you that it's not a, uh, right. It's not, we're not just, um, willy nilly, just, you know, whatever feels right. What's going along. It's, you know, this is all methodical and thought out and yeah. So, yeah. Well, I really appreciate you, you coming on and, and talking to us and telling us your story, because I think it's very beneficial to help people not only to, because most people that are going to watch this channel aren't going to be like, Oh, should I be a Satanist or not? To see how it works. And so that we're not deceived by the, you know, the, maybe the lower levels to, to thinking that there are no different levels. And there's a lot of different aspects of this, that, that can be deceptive that even though we're not Satanists, we can buy into the Satanist doctrine. And I think it's important for us to not be, um, you know, dragged into that, uh, Satanic doctrine without even realizing it. Right. And in fact, most people are actually practicing Satanism and not even knowing it. Exactly. Yep. So that's the, I can't even remember who said the quote, but you know, the, the greatest thing the devil ever did was convince people he doesn't exist. Yep. And right there, first and foremost, I mean, whatever you believe, I mean, it kind of doesn't matter because there are people out there that do believe this. Okay. So it doesn't matter what we believe. It matters what they believe. And whether Satan exists or not, you know, speaking to some people who might not be on the same path, um, Satan does exist because they are self manifesting him. So they're self manifesting evil. Uh, to answer your question about like, why didn't I fall into something else? Yeah, I definitely picked up a Bible. Now I was also very familiar with other religions. Uh, what's interesting is being a Satanist, uh, you are almost encouraged to, uh, study other religions. So I've read the Bat Fagita. Um, I've, I've read, uh, the Tao Te Ching. Um, I was familiar with different forms of the Bible, um, like different, uh, translations. Um, read the Ethiopian Bible. Um, read the book of Enoch, you know, I've, I'm more, more versed in different religions than your average person. Um, now I think the only thing that, uh, that I really carried over was, uh, teachings from the Tao Te Ching. Um, I highly recommend that for anybody only just because it's like a more of a philosophy book. Um, now there are people who practice the Tao as like a hardcore religion, um, and they're monks, but they actually believe in Jesus, which is interesting. Um, but, uh, yeah, I recommend the Tao Te Ching for anyone, um, just because it's, uh, like I said, it's a philosophy book. And if you like philosophy, I highly recommend it. It's incredibly fascinating. It's really short also, but it's, uh, like daily wisdom for living, just like the Bible, you know? So, and it's, it doesn't teach, uh, to believe in a deity or anything. It's, uh, just bite-sized chunks of wisdom. So, um, it's, but, uh, on top of that, just to kind of close out with this, um, the one thing that people need to remember is that Satanists, their whole goal is to lie and deceive. They cannot create anything. They can only destroy, distort, and pervert. Um, they, they cannot create anything, um, which is really important to remember. Um, this is from personal experience. Um, I, I mean, granted they can create artwork. That's not what I'm talking about. They cannot create anything that lasts other than Satanism, apparently, you know, but I think that's, that's kind of a fluke more than anything. But I, I think that actually gives more credence to the existence of Satan as a deity. Um, it gives more credence to the existence of actual evil because it's the only thing that Satanists have ever been able to do is to perpetuate Satanism itself. Uh, other than that, the only thing they do is destroy, pervert, uh, distort, you know, it's just, uh, it's very interesting, but specifically they will lie. They will distort the truth. Uh, they will do everything in their power in order to reach, reach the ends that they desire. Period. So, um, when people say that, oh, Satanists are the only group that don't hurt children, that's a lie. It's a lie. Um, Satanists, just like any other organization out there, um, there's plenty of Satanists that don't hurt children. I will, I'll comfortably say that. Sure. But there, there are plenty that do. Um, and also, like you said, uh, being a bad person is not exclusive to being a Satanist either. So unfortunately, right, right. So it'd be a lot easier if everyone had a, had an eye patch or a big twirling moustache, you know, it would be a lot easier to do that. Um, the best thing you can do is to honestly know that these people are out there. Familiarize yourself enough with the belief system, because I promise you, they know everything about your faith and your, your, uh, your belief system. So familiarize yourself with your adversaries. So that way you're more familiar with what they believe and you'll be able to have an easier time picking them out. Um, and honestly, beyond that, if any, anybody has any questions, you're more than welcome to reach out to me and, uh, find me on X, Instagram, Telegram, or over on my channel, uh, Rise to Liberty, or you can find me pretty much anywhere, um, that, you know, my, my show is I'm on Spotify, Apple. Uh, I also have a sub stack. I highly recommend people, uh, look over at, which is called Beware the Mockingbird. Um, and I'm actually in the process right now with releasing written articles regarding the Satanic Panic. And it's going to be, it's the most extensive look at what caused the Satanic Panic and what the Satanic Panic actually was. Um, so, so yeah. Uh, anybody has any questions, feel free to reach out and, uh, I want to say, Hey, thanks for having me on. This was a blast. Awesome. I appreciate it. We will have your links in the description of the video. And, uh, so again, Jacob from Rise to Liberty, thank you so much. I appreciate you being with us and sharing with us your story. Anytime. Thanks for having me. Now, what is the tree of Liberty society to better understand the name and what we're about? It's important to go back to the founding generation and the symbol of the Liberty tree. The Liberty tree was far more than a patriotic symbol. It functioned as a physical rallying point for popular resistance, a kind of grassroots command center for what contemporaries openly called rebellion seen through today's standards. Many of the ideas and actions associated with the Liberty tree would be labeled extreme, radical, or even insurrectionary. The Liberty tree was most famously in Elm tree in Boston, beginning in 1765 during the resistance to the stamp act, it became the meeting place for the sons of Liberty and a symbol of direct popular sovereignty. The idea that the people themselves, not institutions were the ultimate authority. Similar Liberty trees appeared throughout the colonies, each serving as a local note of resistance. The Liberty tree represented a shift from petitioning authority to defying it. Before 1765 colonists protested largely through legal petitions, pamphlets, and appeals to parliament. After the Liberty tree protest became public, coercive, and sometimes violent. The people, not corrupted courts or legislatures, became the primary enforcer of political norms. The Liberty tree symbolized the belief that laws violating natural rights were not binding, that obedience to unjust laws was morally wrong. This included refusal to comply with taxes, obstruction of courts, intimidation of judges and customs officials. Colonists used the Liberty tree for public pledges to resist parliament, for burning of British symbols, and ceremonial declarations of loyalty to liberty over law. The colonists were acting under natural law, the ancient English right of resistance, and the belief that government existed only to secure life, liberty, and property, and that once government violated those ends, it was considered not merely corrupt, but actually illegitimate. Today, the Tree of Liberty Society believes that American support of the Founders cause shouldn't be merely in terms of the results, but in the principles that brought those results about, and seek to read what the Founders read, and do what the Founders did so that we can bring about what the Founders did. We reject libertinism though, or the false freedom of "do as thou wilt," but embrace the principles of liberty in the fashion of the Founders, in the spirit of liberty under God and His laws. As we build strength with your help, we will be in the same position of the Founders to throw off the chains of tyranny, and again have a biblically moral and free society. Now how do we do this? We do it through the printing, and publishing, and distribution of books, production of videos, pamphlets, exclusive member trainings, interviews, public outreach, public gatherings, and presentations, and just so much more. So I want to ask you, will you show the courage of the Founding Fathers and join with us today? Go to TreeofLibertySociety.com and click on the "Join" tab and become a member today. Or if you're not ready for that, just make sure you sign up for our email or text alerts, which you can also do at TreeofLibertySociety.com. I hope you're one of those that are the moral few, the brave, those that are like the Founders, that are willing to stand up and become a member of the Tree of Liberty Society, and join us in restoring lost liberty.

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