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And he said that if the truth was known about what was really going on with
satanic ritual abuse within the state of Utah, it would really, it would damage the
foundations of not only the government, but also church within the state of Utah.
That night Hey everyone, welcome to pop crime TV the outlier podcast I’m Lauren
Conlon and we’ve got a bit of a different format today as
of the Utah power structure and just the pursuit of truth behind ritualistic abuse
and its origins. And so he has spent years exposing institutional coverups as well
as ritualistic abuse studies. And he actually worked alongside Glenn Pace himself.
So I cannot wait to just dive in and talk to him about that. But Ben has also
written a book and it’s called Invasion, How the Conspiracy Has Infiltrated Your
Community. And I will link that out in the episode notes as well. But Ben is here
to share what he’s learned while researching and investigating. And I’m here to ask
questions and learn. So with that being said, I’m going to bring Ben in right now.
Hey, Ben. Hey, so thanks so much for for having me. Yeah, of course.
Thanks for being here. So as you know I I just kind of started looking into this
story and there’s there’s a lot of moving parts and and I’m very Grateful to the
people who reach out to me with information And also the people that push back on
me, right and say hey you you only know one side of things. You don’t know the
other side. Well, tell me the other side. But right now, I just, I want to know a
little bit about your background and what the Tree of Liberty Society is. Yeah,
so I have been working and working with organizing people to defend liberty since
2003, I started out as a regional field director for the John Birch Society,
directing all of their activities for the Western United States. And then starting in
2013, I started to say, okay, how does this international network of individuals that
have stated in their own documents that they want to build a world government, how
are they implementing it on the local level? And so I started the Tree of Liberty
Society to be able to dig into that. How are we getting United Nations Agenda 2030
programs implemented on the city level? We don’t have UN troops invading our nation.
We have local individuals that are actually turning us over to these programs, and
so investigating how this happens through different organizations like the Bohemian
Grove, like the Skoll and Bones Society, like the Council on Foreign Relations which
has chapters all across the country working with local individuals to get those local
communities like Salt Lake City to be able to implement these globalist programs and
so with that it has led me to be able to investigate things and uncover things
that haven’t been covered before. Okay so this is not and forgive my ignorance,
I guess, because, you know, I, I mentioned to you, I had never heard of skull and
bones. I’m, you know, I’m from New Hampshire. I live in New York City now. And I
don’t know if maybe it’s, it’s just a northeast thing. But it sounds like you said
there are chapters everywhere. But I guess this is two folds for me. So this is
not about becoming a sovereign citizen or anything like that.
Okay, sorry. So So then what exactly is Skull and Bones? I mean,
maybe people are not aware like I was not aware, but please. – So Skull and Bones
is a secret society at Yale where it was started at Yale in the 1830s.
You have Captain and William Russell who was actually in Germany in college and
joined what was called the Toot and Boom, Brotherhood of Death. And when he came to
Yale, he started his chapter of that, of Stolen Bones, at Yale in the 1830s.
And so that expanded and we have Presidents of the United States in 2004, for
example, both John Kerry and George W. Bush were both members of Stolen Bones
running for president. And if you guys remember… I’m sorry to interrupt you.
Is that well -known? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Okay, got it back in the election of 2004
if you guys remember the That don’t taze me bro Yes, it was because he asked John
Kerry about his membership in stone bones. That’s what led to that controversy Wow,
see I I mean look I was much less informed back then Not my my goal.
I informed but I remember exactly what you’re talking about. Okay. This makes sense.
Wow Yeah, and then during Tim Russ
basically to building what is referred to, what George Bush Sr. referred to in his
speech regarding the war in Iraq, the New World Order. And so that’s what they’re
working towards. And so in 1910, they had an alumni from Yale,
was actually a pastor in Utah, started a chapter of Stone Bones at the University
of Utah in 1910 and so just really doing research to discover who are the you know
because the people that then go on from Yale not all of them are well known like
John Kerry and George W. Bush but they all seem to enter into key aspects of
society where whether it’s in academia whether it’s in business or in politics
they’re they’re placed in key aspects of society to help shift the culture towards
the goals of this organization. Okay, got it. All right, that makes sense.
I guess I’m a little embarrassed that I didn’t know what skull and bones was, and
you know, maybe I had heard about it, but I just hadn’t paid attention. Yes,
sometimes yes, it’s kind of out in our peripherals. Yeah, it definitely hasn’t been
on the forefront of my mind, except now, and like I’ve seen it, and I’ve had a
couple people mention it to me after I began sort of my research and my coverage
into Utah and specifically Utah County, but let’s just go to Glenn Pace and his
investigation in 1989 into ritualistic abuse and what was your connection there and
how did you get in with with Glenn Pace? Yeah, so the original memo,
I was just like 12 years old or less than that, like 10 years old when the
original memo came out. And so it wasn’t on my radar when it first came out, but
in the early 2000s, I came across it. So it’s this memo, Glenn Pace for your
listeners, Glenn Pace was a member of the presiding bishopric of the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter -day Saints during this timeframe, late 80s, early 90s. That is
I don’t even know what to do with this, and so they were like passing it up to
Salt Lake, to headquarters, and saying, “What do we do about this?” And so there is
a little known organization within the church called the Strengthening the Members
Committee, and they were tasked with investigating this. And in that committee, Glenn
Pace was the individual with a couple of others that were tasked with interviewing
these members of the church to kind of figure out is, you know, what’s going on.
And so in, and so they issued this memo, it’s called, it’s referred to as the
Glenn Pace Memo, it was a memorandum that he submitted to this committee
talking about the, just the results of his investigation, what it does. And so when
it came out, sorry, I’m just like thinking in my head. What order do I put this
stuff in? No, and I discussed this on a previous episode. So I think if people
listening, they’re familiar, I’ve read excerpts from it. No, but continue,
but I want to deter you. It’s good to get a refresher. So and but what’s
interesting in the in the memo itself, it refers to two other memos that never
became public. And so this was leaked. And it wasn’t like it wasn’t put out by the
church after it was submitted. Somebody in the committee, we don’t know, who leaked
it to an anti -mormon organization called Lighthouse Ministries, and then they
published it, but in the memo it refers to two others. And so I’m like, “What
happened to these other two memos?” It’s like referencing them, like, “As you know
from this other memo.” And so just reading that and just how horrific the things
that he discussed. And he, as you know, he he talked about how there’s just they
all these people from different walks of life telling the same exact story. He’s
like, I believe it. And so fast forward, two thousand I’m thinking two thousand
nineteen. 2018 I I want to,
I’ve already talked to people that have confirmed the memo with him, but I want to
talk to him myself. I want to ask him questions. I want to, you know, just kind
of confirm everything. And so I, somebody else that had been able to get his
information because it wasn’t public. I couldn’t just look it up in the phone book
or the white pages or whatever. I was able to get his information from an
individual that had been able to contact him. And so I go to his house because I
didn’t have a phone number. I didn’t have any way to like set up a meeting. I
just showed up to his door unannounced. – Wow. – And he says he’s getting over a
cold. He’s talking to us real quick. Doesn’t really want to talk to us. He’s kind
of looking around making sure nothing crazy is gonna happen. And we just ask him
about the memo and he confirms he says yes the memo is true and he says that not
only is it true but it’s worse than what I was able to put in the memo and he
said that if the truth was known about what was really going on with satanic ritual
abuse within the state of Utah it would really it would damage the foundations of
not only the government but also church within the within the state of Utah.
And the Utah government, you’re saying, or did he mean within the Utah government
specifically? Okay. Wow. Okay. So he said not only is everything true,
but it’s worse. Okay. That’s terrifying. That’s totally terrifying. And he spoke to,
I mean, he believed that over 800 members of the church were involved based on on
his research and you know there was I guess a very what some would call a flimsy
investigation into this after and they uh of course they said nope there there’s
nothing here and I think this is where the I guess the argument comes in about
repressed memories, false memories,
dissociation, because he believed, Glenn Pace believed that this was all on purpose.
It was all on purpose to train these children to dissociate and to do whatever they
were told to do by the church. Am I right? – By the church of Satan specifically,
but yes. Okay, got it. So I mean, and going back to this, so did did you guys
talk about anything else? Did you talk about any specific survivors, any specific
cases? He was not comfortable with that at all. He, you know, it was almost like
an ambush, you know, just because of the situation. And he did not want to talk to
us. And so he just kind of gave us a brief overview. And you talk about the 300
individuals that he had interviewed, that’s in the 80s. And so he talked about how,
you know, because nothing happened when this officially got released, it’s only gotten
exponentially worse in the, you know, 40 years following. And so because nothing has
ever, that has never, you know, came of it. And so you, and then you have, of
course, the, the labeling of the satanic panic and the linking of it to, of course,
repressed memories, which I have interviewed other people that are survivors of
satanic ritual abuse, and that’s a problem because there’s no physical evidence when
you have that. And so what happens is a lot of people want to focus on that part
of it, but they want to ignore the fact that there are dozens of others,
if there’s an equal amount of others, that didn’t that didn’t have these same exact
stories, you know, accounts that happened to them that aren’t the result of repressed
memory through hypnosis. These are people that just came forward and said,
“This is what my dad did to me. This is what so and so did to me.” We have
individuals that were perpetrators that came to the Attorney General and said,
“I was a part of this. And they said, Oh, sorry, we don’t have enough evidence.
And so you have, you have proof of that individuals who said, I participated in
this type of abuse, I abused someone else produced a document on ritualistic abuse,
talking about people coming forward, confessing to being a part of this and nothing
ever happened to it. Sorry, who did the FBI, the FBI, – Is this document available
or? – I’ll forward you the document, yeah. – Oh, okay, got it. I would love to see
that document. That’s fascinating because yeah, you know, I, it’s really tough because
I do believe, I believe that this is happening. I have a very hard time believing
that some of the people that I’ve spoken to and some of the cases that I’ve read
about that, again, number one, they would all have the same type of thing happening
and they come from different areas and different places. And number two, it is so
disturbing and so horrific.
It’s hard to think that somebody could make this up, but you also see why people
don’t believe it, right? I 100%, when I first came across the victim impact
statement and started looking into this, I actually took a break because I was like
I don’t even know if I can it’s because it is just so wild right it’s so wild
and then the deeper I got the more I was like oh my gosh this I believe this is
real I don’t see how this isn’t real at this point so which is why I was just
compelled to to sort of dive in but in a way hopefully that I guess I’d still was
open to hearing the other side, Ben, if that makes sense, right? But you yourself,
you’ve spoken to survivors and also perpetrators. So when I speak of perpetrators,
I’m referring to the FBI document talking about people that have come forward and
admitted it and that it was because there was no evidence right and and the people
that you have spoken to that are survivors I mean you were were they um were they
I guess repressing memories that they had just remembered or did they come forward
and say this is what happened to me and I lived with this you are all from
repressed memories that uh it was done through hypnosis with a with a psychologist
just And so but which psychologist what’s that? Sorry was it which psychologist was
it all the same psychologist or was it?
Which what is it different one? So each each person had a different psychologist
that they were working with that brought these that was that And it wasn’t like
something that they were trying to you like oh, you know, I think you have this
Let’s let’s let’s like these are different just working with them they’re like I
think you know we need to see what your problems are on a deeper level maybe
you’re not remembering it and so they put them under hypnosis and under hypnosis
these different psychologists brought these things forward out of these individuals. So
you know that this is what they’ve alleged that David Hamlin did to some of these
people and this is why they have these memories oh because David Hamlin hypnotized
me and planted these memories so I mean what you know, how do you rebut that? How
do you, you know, how do you prove that that didn’t happen? That’s the tough part.
What’s just like Glenn Pace talked about is because of the way that those
personalities are split, it’s, you know, and there’s the physical evidence. And so,
you know, especially the biggest problem is with the repressed memory, as opposed to
those that are just submitting this. But we have just not like the UFO stories
where you have people, you know, over 100 years of this being in the lexicon, where
people are hearing what other people are saying about it, these are people that the
satanic ritual abuse stuff just came out into the in the 80s,
came out in the public because it was a brand new thing. And we had people from,
you know, not only from the United States, but from Mexico as well, coming forward,
telling the same exact thing without this, Oh, I heard it somewhere else. And then
today, if new people come out with it, you can say, okay, it’s possible to, you
know, watch the podcast or watch the show about this or, you know, watch the
documentary. But, you know, it’s still not very common. And how many people have
read the victim statements from police reports? Very, very few. None of the people
that I’ve talked to even knew about the police documents to be able to be able to
have read before they had their experience With their psychologists bringing these
things forward and it’s it’s not it’s this isn’t we can’t say this is just a
repeat of the UFO phenomenon I totally agree with that and and it’s funny because
that is in that is mentioned in some of the defense Filing in the American Fork
case for David Lee Hamplin and that American Fork case with the victim ES was was
just dismissed, But they had alleged a few times the defense that oh, ES only said
all of this because she read the victim impact statement from 2014 leak or whenever
that was and so it is it’s interesting that you bring that up because I Look,
I don’t think that this victim impact statement was widely circulated And I don’t
think you can find a lot of these claims very easily. I mean these specific,
disturbing, very detailed incidents of satanic abuse.
It’s hard. You do have to dig for the story. So I agree with you. It’s not like
everybody knows and is saying the same thing. So I guess it kind of feels though,
Ben, it’s like a vicious cycle here. And it feels like we’re just going through the
motions here with Hamblin because they kind of have to at this point Um, and it’s
heartbreaking truly. It’s heartbreaking to see what’s going on. You’ve got this guy
accused How many times you know? Um, and it’s like too much evidence not enough
evidence hidden evidence Why why is no one seeing like that? This is a little
bizarre. I don’t don’t it’s it’s confusing and when it all finally comes out this
happened a couple of years ago with another individual up in Balakul where the the
evidence is submitted and they say oh I’m sorry the statute of limitations we have
to be running for this on trial to see if they’re guilty or not because you know
even if they are guilty it’s past the statute of limitations we got to let them go
yeah it’s it’s And that my whole thing here is that I think that more people now
are becoming aware of this, especially with David Lee Hamplin and his pre -trial
hearing and everything. And look, I think that if Utah was smart, they would take
the San Pete case, they would take it all the way to trial and, you know, they
would figure out how to get a conviction. Because at this point, I think that
somebody, and I’m not saying, I don’t know how I should say this,
I guess, they, somebody needs to be held accountable right now. And I do believe
that the evidence for TS is there based on the fact that they can’t argue, right?
Like they’re, they’re gonna say, okay, well the same investigators that allegedly held
the info in the ES case worked on this case with TS, but they’re different cases.
There’s no alleged ritualistic abuse for TS, right? Hopefully they will see that
everything was done by the book and they will just move forward in going to trial.
That, again, is my hope. And like I said, David Lee Hamlin should be held
accountable to at least show the people that Utah is listening,
right? They’re listening, they might not fully be on board with ritualistic abuse yet
because allegedly…
case a race again. I mean, what does that say? Literally, what does that say? Yeah.
And I think that they’re taking the stance of let it make it go away is what it
is my opinion.
Because you have in the other cases, I did a video on this where you walk through
and you’re like, well, the judicial judiciary in the state of Utah looks
is preventing, you know, certain things are, they’re not allowing certain prosecutors
to take the case. Any prosecutor that would is now promoted to be a judge so they
can’t take it. You have legislation in the state of Utah making ritualistic abuse
illegal. How it’s not already is insane. But the,
and so last year, the bill passes committee, typically the bill that passes committee
goes to the floor this one disappears dies There’s another one that just came out
this year that is tied to another bill that is very controversial So it says that
this bill that makes ritualistic abuse illegal Only becomes law if it passes both
the house in the Senate is signed by the governor and this other bill does this go
So that same process and so which is totally rare very I’m confused and I’m sorry
to interrupt you. I had discussed this because I had emailed Ken Ivory’s office
about the House Bill 66 Which he said that his intern said it’s just waiting for a
signature from the governor and That House Bill which I was like make this make
sense This bill trains law enforcement on how to identify Ritualistic abuse and how
to handle it and and defines it as well yet 196 killed which would criminalize it
so I’m like I don’t quite understand so I did Call the office to try to Get an
explanation to which I haven’t gotten a response yet. Yeah Is that the bill you’re
talking about 66 or is there a different one? So at the very last part of the
bill it says it’s tied to another senate bill that has to pass for this one to be
um In effect. And this is it, guys, like, what is the fight?
What is the fight on this? I’m genuinely asking, like, what, who is harmed if a
bill like this is passed? Who, like, is it going to bankrupt Utah if this bill,
no, it’s not like, what, what is it going to do? Honestly, that’s my question. What
is the big deal? Just together, it makes you kind of mix questions, right? because
there’s another bill. It died because of the controversy, but we have another senator
in the state that introduced a bill that said that if a sex offender requests to
have his name removed in the sex offender offence list, he can have that taken off
whether it’s supposed to be for life. And so it’s just crazy.
Sorry, I learn about these things and I’m like, well, I don’t, it is, and listen,
Utah freaks me out then. I’m so sorry to say that. And I don’t want to offend
anybody because look, I live in New York, okay? I know about corruption. I know
like New York is its own beast. So I’m not sitting here on a high force or
anything. I’m just saying Utah seems to be its own island of misfits in this way
that the Mormon church has a lot of money. They have a lot of power and it’s very
tough to go up against the Mormon church, it seems. I guess I just,
I have just crazy issues here with David Lee Hamlin and how that has been handled.
And I guess I’m thinking from a perspective of the government and possibly lawmakers
and whoever else, if David Lee Hamblin is convicted, do they think he’s gonna start
yapping? I don’t think so, because if he’s convicted and taken a trial on this TS
case, that has nothing to do with the quote unquote “Church of Satan” or ritualistic
abuse. This is just plain old nasty pedophilia, right? So, like,
what, guys, like, think about that. You’ll be safe. Sorry. That’s, you know what I’m
saying though like whoever is involved in this that is is allegedly involved in this
high up like that you’re going to be protected right I mean am I missing something
so if so this goes back to if the victim statements are true that they protect
each other in their crimes and so if it is true that they are part of a satanic
network Then it make what what what is happening makes more sense because Why else
would they be doing this? But if it but if it is true, then it makes sense
because oh, they’re protecting their fellow brothers in their crimes and so That’s
but if it’s not true, then what you’re saying makes total sense. You’re like why
what’s the problem? Right like what What is the problem if, if he’s just a plain
old nasty pedophile and we’re not even talking about, you know, I mean, it’s just
like, whatever, we’ll, you know, we’ll What’s that? Well,
let’s present the evidence to a jury and if he’s not guilty, they’ll let him go
Exactly, exactly. This is just the limbo state is just really unfair to so many
people. I mean, look, including the defendant, including the defendant let’s be honest
because you know we’re all entitled to a speedy trial and we’re all entitled to you
know it’s so it’s just like it’s it’s getting absurd but you know namely this is
just horrifying on on the survivors here and so um what what do you say to people
Ben that don’t believe in ritualistic abuse and and what would you say to them to
to kind of let them know that nope this is true and this is why
similar time period that were totally unrelated, wasn’t, you know, a part of national
news until later wasn’t like the Utah people could be copying the Nebraska people.
Why are these same stories happening all over the place? Right. It’s some kind of
mass hysteria, something everybody’s drinking some kind of crazy hallucinogen in the
water. Something needs to be investigated if it’s not actually happening because
there’s something influencing everybody to tell the same story. – That’s a really good
point, Ben, honestly. Right, investigate that. Investigate why people would be saying
the same thing and why they would be saying that this happened to them. I guess,
you know, like we said before, it’s a tough thing to prove at this point if people
are being hypnotized and then remembering, I can see why,
you know, you would say this to someone off the street and they’d be like, get the
fuck out of here. You know, excuse my language. They’d be like, get out of here
with that, you know? Get off.
empower that because I don’t have additional you know evidence or additional testimony
saying the same thing I can’t come forward with it but I believe it because why
would this cop lie about it is my thought just on on that thing but yeah because
people in power are going to be able to do that and we saw that with in the case
over Nebraska the Franklin cover -up and you have was a senator de camp from their
legislature there did a deep investigation in it, wrote the book on it, showed who
was involved in it, and all of a sudden when this started to come out, all of a
sudden, even though we have just stacks of information coming out, the police refused
to investigate it, and you have media swooping in and immediately calling it satanic
panic and saying that it was all fake, and it was all just all these people that
didn’t know each other somehow conspired together to come out with the same story.
In the case with the Franklin cover -up,
none of them were involved, these repressed memories coming forward. These were just
victims saying, “This is what happened to me.” Just like you do have stuff happening
in Utah, but the Franklin cover -up has the same exact story what’s going on in
Utah, but it’s all just people coming forward. And so the idea that this is all
made up is just, to me, is a more far -fetched conspiracy theory than just taking
things at face value. – Yeah, that’s a great point. And I think that if the
allegations are true at, you know, with some of these incidents, they are so
horrific then that I can see why These memories would have to be suppressed truly
because you you know, you read them and you’re just like I don’t know how this
person would be able to get out of bed every day. I don’t know how they wouldn’t
Yeah, I don’t know how they wouldn’t have taken their own life and and look that
is You know, I’ve I read about TS and and his Siblings and and I believe two of
them took their own life. You know, it’s not, I believe in my opinion, in my
opinion, that they did based on their, their very sad obituaries, because it wasn’t
spelled out, but I, you know, read between the lines there. And yeah,
I think, I think that this is, this is tough, right? It’s, this is going to be a
tough case in general, um, to push forward.
In Utah specifically, I really do considering what’s happened and you know,
I think the Hamlin daughters Don’t speak out anymore. They they don’t talk about the
victim impact statement and I’m sure there’s a number of reasons behind why they
don’t but Unfortunately, I think that has also helped
Defend David Lee Hamlin in a way, right? Yeah, that his own daughters don’t
daughters don’t come forward and say, “Nope, we still stick to this.” I think
they’ve been shut down in court so many times that I guess how can they, but I
don’t know. What do you think? Well, that makes sense going along with what, again,
what Glenn Pay said. If it’s as deep as he says it is, then it would make sense
that, “Hey, they’re seeing this themselves and the people that they’ve been able to
name and that they’ve witnessed themselves in this process, they would say, “Well,
why would I speak out if everybody involved is going to cover this up and maybe
hurt me for speaking out?” If those things are true, then that would make sense of
why they’re saying that. And the same thing, too, is why is it only David Hamlin
and his ex -wife have been the ones charged? Why if these same exact individuals
have named other individuals, why only these people, why are the people in government
that have been named, why are the people in other positions of power been named by
these same victims not had the same, you know, charges brought against them, that
could then be, to me, it says that we have this process of, “Here’s a low -level
guy that we can name publicly that nobody knows about, doesn’t have any position of
power in government or religion,” and then we can say, “Oh, These cases were
dismissed so anything that against him obviously these other people are innocent as
well Yeah, I think David Lee Hamlin was a good target because he was sloppy I
think that he already had you know, he had already lost his law life Or I’m sorry
his license to practice therapy, right because he was Caught basically sleeping
patients. He had the peyote thing You know, he was accused of abuse and an essay
in court during the custody trial. I Just feel like yeah, he was an easy target.
So with all of this corroborating evidence, I guess and then and then the recording
Allegedly of him apologizing and somehow still he’s not, you know, it’s it’s insane
So yeah, I think that they thought that this guy, oh yeah, he’ll be easy and then
we’ll get it dismissed against him, whatever. And look, I have to dive into Rosie
Hamlin’s court papers, but I’m pretty sure ES was her accuser. So unfortunately, I
don’t see this going very well either. The case against Rosie Hamlin, yeah, which
is, or Stevenson, whatever the hell or stupid name is now. You know, it’s really,
it’s troubling then, it’s troubling. Yeah well I mean it makes sense because if
David’s innocent then wouldn’t she be as well. So it would just be the logical
conclusion is that it’ll be the same results will happen there as well. Yeah and I
think it’s like we’ve got to get to the bottom of this. I hear so many different
things from locals in you know how certain people feel about the Utah County
Sheriff’s Office, how some people believe that Sheriff Mike Smith is amazing.
Some people don’t. Some people have given me some connections between husbands and
wives and governors and this. And yeah, it’s a lot, but you have to wonder here.
I don’t believe in coincidences. And the prosecutor misconduct,
allegedly. The law enforcement misconduct, allegedly. It’s just like, what are we
supposed to think here? – Yeah, there was a case a couple of years ago of a former
congressman and a former attorney general attending the investigation of an individual
that was accused of having a child pornography on his computer.
And for some reason, this sitting congressman at the time goes to this low level
scene with the Attorney General and the Attorney General so -called contaminates the
crime scene by taking photos with his cell phone. And all of a sudden,
the Attorney General’s office has to drop the case because the Attorney General
contaminated the crime scene. And so we see these things at all different levels of
What to me my opinion appears to be purposeful contamination of the evidence to make
sure that these types of crimes are protected and Every level I mean and that’s an
educated opinion because when you have an attorney general coming in and doing
something like that It’s like I’m sorry, honey. You’re not coming in off the street.
You’re literally an attorney general. You know the rules you know what to do here.
I mean, that’s that’s stupid. That’s insane. And it just goes back to like, you
know, the disastrous 2022 press conference by David Levitt, which I swear it,
I think, I think about this all the time how it literally is the most insane thing
I’ve ever seen in my life. I cover a lot of cases. I cover a lot of trials. I
have never seen anything like this. So many contradictions in one 45 minute press
conference between that. I don’t really know the case. Oh, but she’s tragically
mentally ill. I’m not a suspect or a POI, but I don’t know anything about the case
because I haven’t read it. I’m just like, what, which is it? You know, like,
it’s, it’s mental, in my opinion. If your birth or assault comes out and says, I
didn’t do anything when nobody publicly accused you of doing anything. Except for,
except for a man who, let’s just say it, multiple things can be true, a man who
is a fugitive on the run, accused of rape, said all these things about you.
He’s the guy that leaked it. He didn’t write it, but he leaked it, and he was the
one saying all these things. So it’s like, what? I mean– – Nobody knew about it.
Nobody knew about it until the local news covered it. – Wait, that’s what I said
too. I said, what are the odds that most people are like, “Wait, What is he even
talking about that?
Okay, and I say this all the time where you know content creators Journalist
podcasters will come out and do this whole post about how so -and -so said something
about them and you know This is radic and I’m just like wow I never would have
even known unless you said this like I never would have known what was because we
know that the media was You know, It’s like the cycle is two days and it’s old
news. Nobody would have known. Nobody, but yeah, Ben,
this has been really enlightening. I really appreciate you talking to me about this.
Again, I’m new, so as I dig in further, I might call you back to have you on and
answer some more questions if that’s cool. – Yes, please, anytime. – And how can
people find you I want to follow you and follow your work. – Yeah,
treeoflibertysociety.com, treeoflibertysociety.com is the place to go. You can follow
us on the YouTube and all of the different social medias and encourage you to check
us out there. – Okay, and I will have all of that in the episode notes as well as
a link to your book if people want to read that. So yeah, thank you so much for
having this discussion with me. I really enjoyed it and it definitely has helped.
So I appreciate you. Yeah. All right, hang out for one second. I’m going to close
this out. All right, bye guys. We’ll talk soon. (upbeat music)