Ben McClintock KTALK Radio Interview (2025-03-24)

Paul Jensen
Okay, folks. Good morning, Ktalk Inside The News. I am your host Paul Jensen. It’s good to be with you this morning. I’m trying to get the tower working and for some reason that just decided that when we put that when this news ended the tower ended. Good morning, folks. Listen, we’ve got a great guest with us this morning. Returning guest and welcome to the program Mr. Ben McClintock, good to have you here. Ben used to be a radio host on Ktalk and also has shared the mic with myself and others many, many times on Ktalk. Again, welcome, didn’t mean to interrupt you there.

Ben McClintock
Oh, you’re good. Thank you, Paul. I appreciate it. You’ll have to excuse my voice, I’m getting over a cough.

Paul Jensen
Okay. Now I just got finally got the tower up and it’s working. It was working but there’s a one-minute delay or 45-second delay then. Listen, we’ve got an incredible topic to discuss this morning and I want to get into that with you, but before I do I want to make sure the people understand who you are, maybe people who do not know you and who we’re joined with this morning. Ben, you have a lot of strong roots in the liberty movement. I heard a really good broadcast this morning on Breitbart talking about what is liberty and one of our founding fathers said it is a jewel and it is something to be sought and that jewel is either being tarnished or stolen recently and my first question to you before we get into a book that you just completed and by the way I just signed up online as a I’ve been to your website many times and I want to talk about your latest book release and I’m going to discuss what it is. But before I do, I probably would rather have you, you know, I was not aware until, you know, a few months ago that you were a coordinator for the John Birch society, but I did know you were a co-founder of Defending Utah. Now you’re not associated with them anymore, but I’ve been, you know, I have Alex Newman on every single Thursday from the affiliate of the John Birch Society, which is the New American, and also the several of the authors there many and matter of fact Joe Wolverton was on with me when I had my radio station down in Provo he was on every week.

Ben McClintock
Oh Joe, great!

Paul Jensen
And so yeah, he’s an incredible. He, matter of fact, he wrote the forward to your book and so tell me a little bit more about yourself where you from why are you so interested in liberty in this jewel?

Ben McClintock
Thank you. Yes, I spent many years as a coordinator and regional director for the John Birch Society, and with that foundation of understanding not only the principles of liberty in the Constitution, but understanding that the attacks to it are not by accident, we aren’t facing separate things like, “Oh, there’s people over here that take your property rights and you’ve got to go fight them.” And there’s somebody over here that they want to go kill babies and we’ve got to go stop them. No, we are facing a conspiracy, satanic, global conspiracy that is seeking the overthrow of the lands, the freedom of all lands, nations and countries, and if we don’t understand that, then we’re going to be behind the eight ball. We’re gonna be really at a great disadvantage. So understanding that, laid that foundation, understanding how come in places like Utah, where the people love the Constitution, love liberty, how come we don’t have UN troops marching down the street, but somehow we have our governor and our legislature and our governor, and I mean our mayors are implementing Agenda 21 and they’re implementing, you know, that we have the governor of Utah promised to never defund Planned Parenthood, things like that, and why would that be happening? And so understanding now, I’ve been able to uncover with the Tree of Liberty Society, treeoflibertysociety.com, how the conspiracy infiltrates our local communities, because if we don’t understand that, then we’re going to think everything’s over in DC, everything’s over in New York. But we have to understand how this conspiracy is infiltrating us on a local community, so that way we stop trusting the wrong people. We start to actually do things that will be effective, because for so often people are involved in liberty but we don’t understand, you know, we don’t understand why we’re spinning our wheels. Why do I keep working with this politician and things never go forward? Well, because this guy’s pretending to be something he’s not, and so that’s really what we’re focusing on at the Tree of Liberty Society is helping people in the local level wherever you’re at whether you’re in Salt Lake, whether you’re in Nevada or in Oregon, wherever you’re at to identify those wolves in sheep’s clothing and so that we can really start to go on the offense in restoring lost liberty, and so I’ve been involved in liberty since I was a little kid. My dad got me involved in volunteering, you know, for the local politics, local political party booths, and I ran for office and was, you know, in positions in different organizations and I’ve been just, I’ve really, I really felt for my entire life, this need that, recognizing that our rights come from God and that we have to understand, if our rights come from God, we have an obligation to Him to preserve those rights, and so I’ve been trying to fight my entire life to help to preserve and restore lost liberty, and I do that now with the Tree of Liberty Society.

Paul Jensen
Excellent. Let’s move into first of all, the book that we’re discussing this morning, among other things, but also a, I want to talk about secret societies, and I understand they have secret societies in place like Yale and other places, but this isn’t affecting Utah, right? This is just something we’re talking about. This is in other locations around the world.

Ben McClintock
Wouldn’t that be nice, right? No, you know, unfortunately we have these everywhere like this. Just for example, the Council on Foreign Relations, people think of those as being in New York but they’ve set up actual branches in cities across the country, and Salt lake City is one of those places where we have a branch of the International Organization, the Council on Formulations and you mentioned Yale. There’s Skull & Bones, well, University of Utah. We have a chapter of Skull & Bones there.

Paul Jensen
Absolutely, there’s even a new, a society, a secret, a society I was not aware of and it’s actually in the headlines this morning. I think people don’t know this and I think they need to understand and then we’ll get the book, what it is, where they can find it. You sent me a copy. I’ve read as much as I can, the more I read, the more I went from interest to critical knowledge and several things. There’s too much to cover, but I’d like to at least cover enough. But what my goal is, is to have people order this book, buy it, order it, and understand what’s in it. From beginning to end, there’s just so much in there, people don’t even understand, and it’s also an outline, a blueprint for doing further research. But this is a secret society, and I don’t know if people are aware of this society. So, I asked two or three different AI programs about the society and it’s interesting because it is actually called the American Inn Of Court. Now this is the American version of the Inn Of Court and I didn’t know about this Secret Society. But, guess who’s in the society? The president is the honorable James E. Boasberg the radical anti-Trump judge that are that is ahead of a district court. But then you also got the vice president of this organization is Ketanji Brown Jackson, and we can go on and on now I don’t know how many people are aware of this but these are the people and now this this article that came out actually this article and it’s not I’ve vetted this so it’s in several locations. But this one is in the Gateway Pundit. We knew that chief justice Roberts, he is caught in secretive invitations to the invite-only club of elite judges and lawyers that include James Boasberg, and we also find out that the reason I bring this up to bring this into the thing we talked about yesterday and last week here at Ktalk Inside the News, that these activists judges met together, and determined exactly who was going to be assigned to disrupt the Trump administration and who was going to file what when and then we find out they have this organization where they all meet together and guess who’s right in the middle of it and who attends meetings? Chief Justice John Roberts. So I thought that was super interesting. Now, having said that, first, can you comment on that, and what are your thoughts? These people are the who’s who, who are filing against Donald Trump, and they even were humorous about it according to certain reports laughing. Okay, no, I’ll take that one. No, I’ll do this. I’ll file this one at this time. No, I’ll file this one at that time and a coordinated effort for all this lawfare, and as of six days ago, there were 129 active cases against the president in a website that people got together and they formed an organization to track all the litigation and it’s called just security, justsecurity.org, and as of now they’re up to 132. So finally, this dates up to the 15th where we have 132 cases filed by these activists judges. I didn’t realize it was that many. How does that work, and let’s first, before you answer that, Ben, let’s talk about the book. You have a book that I knew about the first edition, the first volume, called Invasion Exposing the Hidden Agenda, unveiling the path to freedom. Now you have combined. and expanded. You have combined the first and second editions and it’s now together in the single book that is literally a handbook, a Bible that is needed in every home, in every hand of anybody who is liberty-minded. First of all, tell me a little bit about the genesis of this book and also tell me what we need to know, what information you’re trying to put out.

Ben McClintock
Yeah, thank you so much, I appreciate those kind of words. So the history behind it was, kind of like what I just talked about a minute ago, was I recognized that this conspiracy that we’re facing, and you mentioned like with this judicial, and people have to understand that this isn’t a separate conspiracy. This is one conspiracy, and that’s why on the cover of it, I have this Leviathan, it’s one monster with many tentacles, and so if we think of these things as different than we’ve got to play the satanic game of whack-a-mole, of just having to go after every single one, but if we understand that it’s a conspiracy, then we can keep our focus and we’re not going to get distracted, and so I go through and I show how this international conspiracy infiltrates local communities. I use Utah as the case study, as the example of how did this freedom-oriented location get so infiltrated with this conspiracy, and that’s why it’s called Invasion. We’ve been invaded by this satanic conspiracy, and how did it happen, and so I spent just years inside of not just doing Google searches and just finding stuff on the internet, I’ve had to go into the depths of the archives of the University of Utah, the state archives at religious archives, going across the country to archives in back east and getting all of these original documents that you can’t find elsewhere, and so I think something else that you might have noticed there, Paul, is that it’s filled, every page is filled with footnotes. So you can go and find, you know, and say, “Oh, Ben’s not just making this up.” Here’s the source where you can go read it yourself and read it in context and do more research on this topic. And so helping us understand how this conspiracy has infiltrated our local communities and so that way we can prevent it from happening again in the future and then we can say, okay, this is how we got here, which means this is how we get back. It’s sometimes like we’re in the wilderness and we don’t even realize how we got here. So we don’t know how we got here; we don’t know how to get back to where we’re supposed to be. So this helps you see how you got to where you are, which provides you a path to get back to where you need to be. We can go on the offense. We’re not always on the defense. We need to go on the offense to actually go in and say, “Hey, this far no further, and I’m taking back lost ground. I’m taking this back. I’m taking this back.” And it provides us the way to be able to do that.

Paulo Jensen
Fantastic. I already got a message by text and someone said what is whack-a-mole and how does that how does that have any reference what we’re talking about today. I remember that whack-a-mole was game that you we used to play still people play it everywhere invented in 1975 in Japan but what is whack-a-mole and why is this, why are you using whack-a-mole as a comparison?

Ben McClintock
Okay, yeah, I thought that may be a universal reference. So yeah, it’s like this game you used to play at carnivals where you have this mallet and in the game there’s these holes in the thing and a little electronic mole pops out of a hole and you’ve got to whack it, and then it goes back down and it comes back another hole and you’ve got to whack it, and then it comes back down and then you’re going to pick up another hole and you’ve got to whack it again, and so there’s all these different holes that this mole pops out of and you’ve got to try to hit it before it goes back down in the hole. So if we think of, you know, all the things that we’re facing as individual, that’s maybe an arsonist, might be it. We think of the issues of taxes, of life, property, you know, of the Constitution. If all these different things are individual spontaneous fires, then we just think we have to fight everything. But when we understand these fires are started by an arsonist, meaning they’re started on purpose, then we can say, “Oh, who’s the arsonist?” Then go after the arsonist and then these other fires, we don’t have to You know, we don’t have to really focus so much on the fires. The fires will start to go out by themselves, stop popping up and we just have to focus on the arsonist and stop being distracted by the fires that the arsonist starts.

Paul Jensen
Okay, very good explanation. I hope you got, Jeremy. So let me just go through the… your index and your contents. So what we’ve got is we have Section 1 letting our guard down, Section 2. How did we get here? and the conspiracy to change our culture. Now, the octopus you talked about, is that octopus Biden, is that octopus a member of Congress or past president or is that octopus Trump? What is that who is really the octopus that has tentacles and uses those tentacles to try to take down our nation? And I know that you, you quote a lot of scripture in here and the whole reason I’m on the air still and I’ve gone through all the things we go through to get this information out is we’re commanded to wear out our lives exposing these people and these things, and we’re warned in all of scriptures about conspiracies and about secret societies and their goal is to take down governments and to take away the liberties of the people. Who is the octopus that has these tentacles?

Ben McClintock
Yeah, sometimes people will say that, right? They’re like, “Oh, that’s Biden. No, that’s Trump. Oh, that’s Obama.” That would say that we didn’t have a threat to liberty before Obama, and clearly we have. This conspiracy has lasted for multiple generations. It goes back all the way to Satan and Cain and their conspiracy, and so really ultimately, who’s the head of the conspiracy? Who’s the head of this Leviathan? It is Satan, and he has his servants on the earth, and it’s multi-generational and so it’s important for us to understand organizations like the Council on Foreign Relations or the Bohemian Club, or you know things like that and so that we understand the principles behind them because people die off, right? Obama’s no longer in office, these individuals that, we go throughout time, the conspirators that have been in office like Woodrow Wilson, they’re no longer in office and so if he’s out of office now does that mean it’s no longer a problem? So if we think it’s a person, if we just identify it with a person only, then we can get distracted. So it’s important for us to understand the organizations these individuals belong to. So that way when the individual that we can see today in front of our face goes away and is no longer in the public spotlight, we don’t think the problems done away. We understand that it’s still there and we can start to look at other individuals and we can start to look at the bigger picture of who are the puppet masters of the puppets that we see in front of us, and so it’s important for us to understand that aspect of it, and so that’s why we go through and show how this conspiracy is multi-generational. It’s gone back, you know, not only since Cain, but in more recent times we go back to the 1700s and how that has gone generation to generation and who they involve themselves with.

Paul Jensen
Well, it’s interesting that in 1776 we had two things. We formed this nation, but there were secret societies that have long tentacles. What can you tell us about that? And then I’m going to go back to the table of contents.

Ben McClintock
Yeah. So, this is something I believe in very strongly, and there’s a lot of evidence for, is that when God sets something up, you mentioned like we have the Declaration of Independence, where, in that same exact year Satan had his kingdom setup, basically. We have in May, May 1, 1776, Adam Weishaupt in Germany set up this organization called the Bavarian Illuminati, and if you look at the goals of the Bavarian Illuminati, those are the same exact goals we see in the Communist Manifesto, and so, even though the Communists don’t call themselves the Illuminati, if we understand the goals of the Illuminati, we can see those goals in other organizations, and so, that’s important for us to see the connections between the two, and we see a lot of things like, you have the Bohemian Grove, you have Skull & Bones, you have the Council on Foreign Relations. Well, there are individuals that are in each of those organizations, why do they cross over each other? And understanding those types of things we lay out in the book.

Paul Jensen
Very, very good. There are things like E equals mc squared. When I heard that, it sunk into me, it stayed there. When I heard about the various things like Agenda 2021, Agenda 2030, those sunk in and stayed with me. There’s also positive things that, you know, we learn about the first amendment, the second amendment, that, you know, the right to bear arms and so forth, that sink in and they stay as a foundation. Well, there are three foundational things that I read in your book that I want people to remember. Can you please describe these? We have three principles, economic independence, political independence and educational unity. Those three are three things that stuck with me when I read them and you discuss them in detail. What can you tell us about those three independence and unity, two independence and one unity?

Ben McClintock
Yeah. Those three things, if you have them, you have Liberty. Really. I mean, that’s really what it comes down to. It is difficult for the enemies of Liberty to go after you, and so that’s why those are the three things that the enemies of Freedom go after, and so economic independence, you kind of just think about that where if you are not dependent on somebody else for your ability to provide for your family the things that they need, right? The food, the shelter, water, those things. We saw that during the pandemic where people were like, “I need to go grocery shopping. I need to get food.” And so they gave up their, they violated their conscience and they wore a mask so that they could get food. Well, if you produced your own food, or you’re in a community that didn’t need to go to Walmart to get your groceries, you wouldn’t have had to have given up your conscience and violated your conscience to do those things. Or you wouldn’t have had to violate your conscience to get a vaccine to keep your job because you were financially, you had economic independence. You provided your own, or you either provided your own or you were a part of a community that was able to provide your own income. And then, political independence, this principle the Founding Fathers really understood quite well is you only obey those things that are constitutional. In the Declaration of Independence, they mention pretend legislation that the King and Parliament were a part of, they were violating their own English Constitution and so they said we’re not going to obey that because it’s pretend and so if we understand that principle and how that was violated in early days of Utah and what the Saints were engaged in to say hey that’s illegal, that’s unconstitutional, we’re not going to be a part of that, then we can start to say hey, you know, we start to show how we can be, we declare independence against those that are trying to violate the Constitution and those principles of liberty. And then, the next thing is really important, and it’s multi-generational, is not allowing the enemy to educate our children.

Paul Jensen
Ben, let me interrupt you one sec. Just to announce we have a hard out news at 30 minutes after, in about 30 seconds, so we just it’s very short it’s a short news broadcast and so also I just got a text from Rand who asked are you taking calls? Yes, we are on together on a conference call on my cell phone so we do have the lines available for your calls. This break should come up any moment automatically. If it doesn’t, that’s good for us. Anyway, so when it starts, I’ll just stop and then we’ll be off the air for a minute or so, a moment or two, we’ll go from there.

Paul Jensen
Okay, we’re back on. Ben, back to you.

Ben McClintock
Yeah, thank you. So, yeah, educational unity, the importance of getting out of the government system because it’s designed. Even though we have the executive order getting out of the Department of Education, we have these, even on a state level, even if you’re in Utah, the state board of education is filled with individuals that are trying to implement the sodomite supremacy agenda, getting your kids to turn into furries, promoting the idea of unfettered obedience to the government. And so they understand how important it is to get your children for the next generation. As the scriptures say, right, you train up a child when he’s young and when he’s old, he will not depart from it. And so they want your children to indoctrinate them. And so it’s so important for us to only allow those people that have the same values and beliefs that we do to teach our children. And so, and it goes into the attack on how our schools were infiltrated and how they worked to get our children out of either church schools or out of homeschooling. Because, you know, for the, since the beginning of time, homeschooling was the norm until we get into the early 1900s where they said, oh, you must have your child leave the home. And we must, the government must indoctrinate them from, you know, for eight hours a day. Otherwise we’re going to send you to jail. And so now it’s become this weird thing to homeschool your kids or to send them to a private school or to send them to a homeschool co-op. Because there are lots of options. You don’t have to just do homeschool. You don’t just have to do a private school. There are lots of choices. But the key is to ensure that your children are raised not only– by your values. If you’re not going to teach them all day long, you need to find someone that will teach them your values. Otherwise they will be raised up in other people’s values. And so if we can go back to economic independence and political independence and educational unity, we will really be going on the offense to restore lost liberty.

Paul Jensen
Very, very good. I think that you point it, make a very, very good point in the fact that what apparently Trump is fighting for is to get rid of the Department of Education and the tentacles it has. I understand that many of the responsibilities and duties of the Department of Education have already been divided to other organizations. But even if we do have the opportunity of putting everything back to the states, that’s still not the answer, according to what I’m hearing from you, that the local state government and the local state educational boards are certainly not liberty-minded and conservative. I’ll have you respond to that, but also you’ve mentioned something like the Sodomite leaders at the top. What are you referring to and what does that mean? I don’t want to get gross or off-topic, but people have got to understand, some of the initiation rites of these organizations, that’s exactly what they are all about. Go ahead.

Ben McClintock
So I try to go back to the Biblical definitions of words and not to adopt theirs. And so they want us to use terms like gay or LGBT because it doesn’t tell you what they’re all about. And so the Lord has told us what this is, and they’re engaged in sodomy. And the agenda is Sodomite supremacy, meaning they want to put it as the standard for everyone. And that’s why you have these pride months where you have to celebrate what they’re doing because they’re saying that it’s superior. And so that’s what I mean by Sodomite supremacy movement. The schools are a part of the propaganda and brainwashing to get the normalization of what the scriptures call evil. And so we need to call it what it is. And so that’s why I use that terminology. But yes, as you mentioned, and I point out in the book, we have these organizations where part of their initiation rites is to engage in sodomite acts. We see that at the Bohemian Grove. We see that at the Skull & Bones Society. And so it’s important for us to understand the underlying nature of this satanic conspiracy and what their goals are, and so that we don’t adopt it in our normalization of the culture.

Paul Jensen
And a revelation that came out yesterday is, in some interviews that are being held down in El Salvador at the prison, these MS-13 gangs, one of their initiation rites is just to kill somebody. We’ve already heard those many times. They have to kill a relative. And one of the gentlemen that they were a–gentleman!–one of the gang members that they interviewed, is talking about that he’s actually eliminated members of his immediate family as part of the initiation to show how they – so anyway, so these secret societies going back at least Biblically to Cain and Abel, and then Cain’s secret societies that took place afterwards, then we go forward on your book into some secret societies that you point out specifically, and I know you handle it with kid gloves, some of the members of that organization, but we’re talking about the Federal Reserve. You’re talking about the Council on Foreign Relations, Skull and Bones, the Bohemian Club, the Alfalfa Club, and so forth. There’s some of the leaders of the University of Utah Skull and Bones Society will actually blow you away. The list is overwhelming. And then there’s the Owl and Key. The juniors, a junior at the university, that’s when they were invited into Skull and Bones in the University of Utah. And then when you turn to be a senior, then you go in – if you’re still part of the organization, you go into Owl and Key. The other organizations you have, like the Alfalfa Club, alive and well, and people will be very surprised who attend these meetings and what goes on there. Can you get specific about some of these organizations, and then we’ll take a call from Dean.

Ben McClintock
Yeah. So I think it’s pretty interesting, like the Federal Reserve, a lot of people that are probably your listeners, know about the Creature from Jekyll Island and things like that, that understand the history of how that started. What we don’t understand is maybe the connection to even here on the local level of how you see on these buildings all around Salt Lake City, Eccles, why we have the Eccles Foundation. Well, the Eccles family is a family that was actually directly involved in the Federal Reserve and the creation of this part of the Communist Manifesto to put the credit into the hands of the state, where you have Mariner Eccles actually speaking. He was at the Bretton Woods Agreement. He’s from here in Utah. He’s one of the – his family started the banks in Utah before the crash, the Great Depression, and somehow their banks were one of the only banks that survived the Great Depression. And then they were a part of the people that created the Federal Reserve. And then you have with the Federal Reserve, Mariner Eccles speaking at BYU, telling them that we need to have the government control the population and make sure people don’t have too many kids, telling BYU that they need to be a part of building this basically this New World Order. And with the Federal Reserve, you have a prominent individual in the state of Utah telling the people of the state that he promised the head of the Federal Reserve the complete obedience of the people of Utah if they would just bring a branch of the Federal Reserve to Utah and making – and promised them that we would get into debt to the Federal Reserve if they would just bring us a branch of the Federal Reserve. So that’s why Salt Lake City has had, even when we were a small state, and even today we’re still comparatively small, why do we have a branch of the Federal Reserve? Well, it goes back to this prominent individual promising our obedience if they would bring that branch of the Federal Reserve to Salt Lake City. And so understanding these things is vital so that we stop, you know, falling for these false solutions that are brought before us and we start to go back to correct principles.

Paul Jensen
Let me just go into Mariner Eccles just a little bit. You know, they joined the church. They were from Glasgow. And they came to America. They joined the Saints and went west. He bought into banks, insurance companies, railroads, beet sugar factories, flour mills, construction companies, condensed milk plants, canneries, coal mining ventures, electric light plants, a hotel in London, and the Grand Ogden House in Ogden, and attended BYU. And what was he? He’s considered the founder of the Fed. And so that is really interesting. And you’ve got David Eccles and so forth. These people controlled the banking in Utah for a long time, First Security Bank, and then was combined with other financial institutions. Common, ordinary people. And I have former business partners that were all involved in this. Names, common names. I don’t want to bring them up over the air. All of you know who they are. And I’ve been involved in church assignments with one or two of these people. And so I’m an inner city missionary, as they call it. And the president of our mission is one of the leaders in this Utah organization that you– a name you’d know very, very well. And then even members of the Twelve, and even the president of our church, who was the president of the Skull and Bones at University of Utah when he was a junior, back in 1944 during the war. And then he graduated when he was a senior into the Owl and Key organization. Very interesting. Now, does this mean they’re bad people? Are they part of it? Are they one of the tentacles? Are they evil? Is the president of our church? They’re both active members of the church. Does that mean the church is being controlled by Skull and Bones, Ben McClintock?

Ben McClintock
That’s something that, as you said, I tried to kind of treat it with kid gloves because I don’t think that, you know, I don’t want people to throw the baby out with the bathwater. And we need to make sure that we don’t– I don’t want to destroy testimonies. So I think we have to, people have this idea of once you become in a certain position, that all of a sudden your agency is taken away from you and you can’t make choices anymore. And that’s just not true. And so people can make bad decisions and that doesn’t destroy the validity of an organization. And so we need to get away from personalities and back to principles and so that we can do the right thing. We’re responsible for our own salvation. And so that way we can follow correct principles no matter what anybody else does.

Paul Jensen
How do we know that President Nelson was the president of Skull and Bones?

Ben McClintock
We have two ways to know. It’s in all of the documents at the University of Utah, in their yearbooks and in their membership list. Also, President Nelson wrote his autobiography, called Heart to Heart, where he talked about it. Just like George Bush, George W. Bush talks about his membership at Yale Skull and Bones, President Nelson talks about his membership in Skull and Bones at the University of Utah in his autobiography.

Paul Jensen
Yeah, and I’m not insinuating in any way that Skull and Bones still has a place in his heart or in his life. It’s just a matter of history. And I believe he is a true living prophet. But in that connection, and thanks for your patience, Dean, we’ll get right to you. But in that connection, what about Mike Lee of Utah? I was really surprised to read the information. He has one of the best voting records according to, well, the John Birch Society Liberty score. You know, he’s like 97, 98 percent of the time votes according to the Constitution. But you revealed several things in your book regarding the Lee family.

Ben McClintock
Yeah, yeah. You know, the voting scores are a good kind of starting point. But we look at history, look at Dick Cheney, who is a member of the CFR and is a big globalist and part of 9-11, all that kind of stuff. But he also, when he was in Congress, he had 100 percent voting record, as well, for the Constitution. And so it’s important for us to not, we don’t just throw it away, but it’s important to say, okay, that’s a starting point. We don’t just base it off of that. We kind of look forward. And so Mike Lee, he has, you know, been a long time connected to CFR members like John Huntsman. And the connections with that family, who is also, John Huntsman was in Epstein’s Little Black Book. And what’s interesting is, even as a senator, even besides his background that I cover in the book, Mike Lee, he teamed up with Orrin Hatch to do fundraising for globalist and big government Mitch McConnell. And he voted, he teamed up with Obama when all of the key anti-constitutional parts of the Patriot Act were about to expire. He got with Obama, then they got together to create the USA Freedom Act, which then expanded and ensured the continuance of the worst parts of the Patriot Act. And so, you know, if somebody votes 100 times to lower taxes, and then the 100th vote is to allow the government to take your children away for any reason, well, that negates those 99 other votes. We have to say that that one vote does. I mean, people say, well, he votes right most of the time. Well, when it’s, when that one vote destroys liberty, then it negates the other votes. And so we have to recognize that a lot of times Satan will tell us 99 truths to get us to believe the worst lie that leads to our destruction. And that’s what we see with the record of Mike Lee.

Paul Jensen
Very, very good. Yeah, back in, I think it was 1978 or 1979, I had a friend. I was in the mortgage business, and I had a friend named Floyd Cooper. And they decided to move from Florida to Utah. And when they came, they moved into our ward. I lived in Monument Park Stake in Immigration Canyon and down to the valley there at the mouth of the canyon by Hogel Zoo. And I was the young men’s president of the ward, and we met this young lady. Her name was K.K. Cooper, the daughter of Floyd. And she started attending our programs, especially young women’s, young men’s. And so we took her aside, and we taught her the gospel, and we brought in full-time missionaries. And then we baptized her into the church. I introduced her to Jay Osmond, and I was partnered with the Osmonds at the time, and I eventually bought the Osmond Studios. But Jay and K.K. dated for a while. And then after a while, she was introduced to a guy named John Huntsman. And her name is Mary Kay Cooper. And then she married John Huntsman. And now they – he’s been held several positions and is also tightly controlled and involved in a very aggressive way with the control of the state. And so that – I’ve talked to Mary Kay, K.K., several times and wondered why they left it all and left the church and why they continue to go down this road of this global conspiracy. And she’s not even aware of it as much as you would think that she is, and she’s not even aware of her husband’s position on many things. Now, I take a risk in mentioning that, but this is a good, good woman. I mean, this is a really good person. What happened to the Huntsmans? Because I heard in myself when I was a leader in a leadership position, we had a – when Elder Huntsman came to our stake, I asked him personally, and I know your son very well, what happened? And he was really embarrassed that his son had gone down this globalist road. And your thoughts on that, and do you have any additional insight on that?

Ben McClintock
You know, I don’t have any insight on, like, how – you know, what happened to him. And I just say that oftentimes in those – you know, people get in these positions. I know Joseph F. Smith talked about how the flattery of the world is, you know, one of those three things that lead to individuals’ downfall. And I think when people get into powerful positions, they, you know, they lose hold, and they don’t like being mocked, and they want to be popular. And so they adopt the things of the people that they think will be able to get them the things that they want. And so they turn away from the truth. I think that’s a definite possibility in this case.

Paul Jensen
Well, of course, he was an ambassador to Russia, and things seemed to change at that point somewhat. Any thoughts there?

Ben McClintock
Well, I think – if you go back to him as governor as well, he started to introduce a lot of these things in the state of Utah, like with the ConCon, and then getting, you know, working behind the scenes at the Alta Club in Salt Lake City and the things that go on there to be able to – because the Alta Club is kind of the hub of the international conspiracy. And in the state of Utah, where you have the CFR kind of funnel its programs through the members there at the Alta Club, where they have their meeting every single month at the Alta Club. And so that’s where John Huntsman announced his candidacy for president when he ran for president. And so we see that these connections kind of go back a ways, and his bringing in a lot of those internationalist programs into Utah during his governorship as well. And so I think it goes back several years, even before him becoming ambassador.

Paul Jensen
Okay, very good. Go ahead. Thanks for your patience, Dean. You’re on the air with Ben McClintock.

Caller
Yeah, I know, Ben. How you doing?

Ben McClintock
Great.

Caller
Anyway, I think Huntsman was the ambassador to China, wasn’t he? Not Russia.

Ben McClintock
Yes. No, no, no. Because under the Obama administration, and then you have under the Trump administration, he had different – he was ambassador to – one was Russia, one was China.

Paul Jensen
Yep.

Caller
Oh, okay, okay. Yeah. He’s also a conspiracy theory that he’s on the Epstein list, too. But anyway.

Ben McClintock
That’s not a theory. It’s a fact. I’ve got it in my book.

Paul Jensen
Yeah. It’s in the book.

Caller
I didn’t want to say it because I know how all this stuff is really touchy. But anyway, what I wanted to talk to you about – I’m glad you’re on here today – is about the Federal Reserve and going back to that. I’ve got so much information on that. I was trying to get a hold of you. And, Paul, they’ve changed this U.S. debt clock. And I’ve taken – if you want to look up shocking information, you look up that U.S. debt clock now, and they’ve got Doge on there. It has changed – they’ve changed the numbers, almost $90 trillion in one day. So, anyway, what this Federal Reserve does – well, let’s go to that debt clock. If you look up that debt clock, and right on the very bottom of the corner, it’ll have an X. Okay? You push that X–

Paul Jensen
Yeah, that’s Twitter, yeah.

Caller
Yeah. That X – that first picture on that X is a picture of the United States with those – with the cycles of the lunar cycles and the solar cycle that’s been going on. I’ve been studying this for years. I’ve got a map right above my head with the exact same lines on it. And, see, you look down there on all these different things on that – and they’re all Kabbalistic. You blow them up, and there’s dates on there going back years. So, whoever has done this – I don’t – I can’t imagine anybody that could do it. But February – or December 23rd was the 111th anniversary of the Federal Reserve. Okay? One, one, one. That’s a Kabbalistic number. And down there on the Social Security, that debt with the Medicare and everything was turned $222 trillion, 222, that day. I’ve got it all documented. And then, you know, that is all erased off there. And so, anyway, I’d like to get a hold of you, Ben, and walk you through this because I know you’re pretty much out of time here. And so, I’ve got all kinds of information on this. And just take a look at it and see what you think. Thanks, guys. Let me contact you.

Ben McClintock
Email me through the website. Treeoflibertysociety.com. Treeoflibertysociety.com.

Caller
Yeah, I’m computer illiterate, so I’ll get somebody to email you.

Ben McClintock
Okay. Sounds good.

Paul Jensen
Thanks for your call. Your comment, and then I want to ask you about another chapter of the book. Go ahead.

Ben McClintock
I mean, that’s interesting information. I don’t know. I’d have to look more into what he’s talking about. Sounds interesting.

Paul Jensen
I can’t tell you how sad I am that we could not cover more of the book. You’ve got to order it, folks. How do I order it? Then I want to talk to you about one of the sections of your book.

Ben McClintock
Yeah. It’s treeoflibertysociety.com, and then you click on the store, and we’ve got it right there. Okay. And you can also join and be part of this at several levels. Tell our listeners what Killing No Murder is, and why is that in the book, and what does that mean?

Ben McClintock
Yeah, that was written anonymously in the late 1600s in England. It was written to the king, Oliver Cromwell. And in there, it lays out the definition of a tyrant. Because so often it’s like with the word Hitler, right? If you accuse somebody of being Hitler, it’s meaningless. It’s just what you accuse somebody of that disagrees with you. And a lot of times the word tyrant or tyranny is just thrown around as an accusation that has no meaning. And so I want to bring meaning back to it, because too often we know over time the meaning of words changes. And so we need to know what a tyrant is. And I think today we don’t know what it is. And it goes through and it defines what a tyrant is. And with that definition, I think we’ll be shocked as to what the definition is and who it applies to today and what that means our duty is. It lays it out in that section of the book. I wanted to bring this back. It’s something the Founding Fathers read and what guided them as well in their activities. And so I felt that that was an important inclusion for us to start to recognize what it is that we’re facing today so that we can start to recognize what the real solutions are and why we are being told to do things that actually empower the conspiracy. And that way we can start to do things that actually will actually hamper the work of the conspiracy and we can start to restore lost liberty.

Paul Jensen
Why is Oliver Cromwell important?

Ben McClintock
Because he is, you know, he was the king and people thought he was, you know, some people think he was a good guy and he was popular. And so it was important for him to be defined as a tyrant so that the resistance to his activities was understood. Because if you resist somebody that nobody understands why you’re resisting them, then we, that they think that you’re just being a rebel, that you’re just, you know, you’re a terrorist. And so when you understand what it is that you’re, you know, why you’re going against somebody and that it’s legitimate, then you can start to help people come to your aid and join the cause.

Paul Jensen
One last question. Today’s leaders, how connected are they to the secret society?

Ben McClintock
Yeah, with all of the crossover. And we’re working on a coming up report on the connection to the leadership today in America. You really don’t get in these national and statewide positions of power without being a part of these things and helping to implement their agenda. And it’s important for us to understand those connections.

Paul jensen
Okay, perfect. We’re going to be cut off in about 30 seconds. But let me just, and by the way, callers, I’m sorry, I can’t take any calls. We’re out of time. We’ll be cut off the air. But these, we have Dr. Jack Stockwell that is on the air here at KTALK, Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday. He’s made a statement several times on the air. No matter how bad you think it is with these secret societies and with our government and with the progress of Agenda 21 and Agenda 2030, it’s a thousand times worse. Don’t you think? He said it a dozen times. We need to end it here. Thanks so much for your service today, Ben McClintock.