Member training from March 17th 2025. In this meeting, Moses covers the vital link to morality and liberty, what is morality and our role in promoting it.
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TRANSCRIPT
Father in heaven, we’re grateful to be here tonight. We’re grateful for this, the
abundance of thy mercy to see fit that we can know what’s really going on in the
world and increase in our knowledge of our calling and purpose, each one of us,
and as a society. And we pray tonight that thou will bless this meeting to be
uplifting and edifying and for us to get a little, even more clearer idea of what
you would have each one of us do. And we pray a blessing on Ben and all who work
with him in the name of Jesus Christ. Amen. Thank you. Amen. All righty.
Carmen, are you ready for the minutes?
So that we’re going to focus on creating more people starting with us. And couldn’t
find the quote, but I wanted to add, um, I think it was Joseph Smith that said,
You need to start with the spirit of God in yourself Then you go to your family
and then your community and then your city and to the whole earth
That was
Wells Daniel which wells So
our purpose in the tree of liberty is felt understanding of the principles that have
built free nations exposes satanic conspiracy and build an effective resistance to
that conspiracy.
John the 6th Catechus Ennis, I think that’s how it’s pronounced,
said was around during the High Roman Empire, said there’s nothing more conducive to
the destruction of a nation whether it be republic or monarchy than the lack of men
of wisdom men intellect. When a republic has many citizens, or a monarchy many
ministers of high quality, it quickly recovers from those losses that are brought
about by misfortune. When such men are lacking it falls into the very depths of
disgrace. That is why I deplore the present state of the Holy Roman Empire, which,
having produced so much excellent men in the past, has now been reduced to such a
level of sterility that today’s governors possess nothing to elevate them above those
whom they govern. So even back then he realized that you can’t have
a working nation if the people are unvirtuous.
And these are certain principles that I’ve selected for covering tonight,
starting with no regard for those who disobeyed the law, that being God’s law,
which is the law. In Joe Smith’s papers for the minutes of the Council of Fifty,
page 113, they had a revelation from God, “I am the Lord thy God, ruling the
armies of heaven above and among the nations of the earth beneath. I have created
all men of one blood; I set up one, and I put down another; and to me alone
belongs the right, the power, the majesty, the glory, and the dominion. I alone am
king of kings, and lord of lords. I alone am the rightful lawgiver, too man; I
alone have a right to judge the inhabitants of the earth, which is my footstool. I
will acknowledge no other law, rule, power, authority, or dominion than that which is
instituted by me, the great I am, and no other government, kingdom, dominion,
authority, power, rule, or law shall be acknowledged by my people.” So if we’re
going to be called the people of God, we will not recognize anything that does not
recognize him.
And we have examples of this with the ancient prophets, Daniel, he,
when he heard about the, what’s it called,
the request law by the King statute. The King passed the statute that said you
could not pray to or worship any other God besides, or you cannot worship anyone
besides the King. And then when Daniel knew that this writing was signed. He went
into his house and his window was being opened in his chamber toward Jerusalem. He
kneeled upon his knees three times a day and prayed and gave thanks before his God
as he did after time. So he did not care.
He did not acknowledge it at all.
And then he sat right next to me in a bed in the go.
Sorry, very good.
Nebuchadnezzar was told that they were not worshiping his golden images, and he went
and inquired them about it, and they replied, “Oh, Nebuchadnezzar, we are not careful
to answer thee in this matter. If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to
deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us at thy hand, O
King. But if to be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods,
nor worship thy golden image, which thou hast set up.” So they said,
but sorry, they said they didn’t know if they would be saved,
but they did not care, because they would not follow that immoral commandment from
the king. And I think it was the same with Daniel, too. He did not know whether
he would be saved, but he
disobeyed anyways. But I
wanted to go over some other examples of others not being saved.
First, I want to lay down
some background. So In DNC 91, Joseph asked about the correction of the translation
in the Apocrypha, which are selection of books that the Protestants didn’t count as
canonical,
and so Joseph inquired of the Lord about it while he was translating the Bible. And
he got this revelation, “Verily thus saith the Lord unto you concerning the
Apocrypha. There are many things contained therein that are true,
and there are many things contained therein that are not true, which are
interpolations by the hands of men. Whoso readeth it, let him understand, for the
Spirit manifested the truth; and whoso is enlightened by the Spirit shall attain
benefit therefrom; and whoso receiveth not by the Spirit cannot be benefited.” So
I’d like to go to 2nd Maccabees chapter 7.
It came to pass also that seven brethren with their mother were taken and compelled
by the king, Antiochus Epiphanes, against the law to take swine’s flesh. And were
tormented with scourges and whips, but one of them that spake first said thus, “What
would thou ask or learn of us? We are ready to die rather than to transgress the
laws of our fathers.” Then the king, being in a rage, commanded pans and cauldrons
to be made hot, which forthwith, being heated, he commanded to cut out the tongue
of him that spake first, and to cut off the utmost parts of his body, the utmost
being the main parts of his body, so his limbs, the rest of his brethren and his
mother looking on. Now when he was thus maimed in all his members, he commanded him
being yet alive to be brought to the fire and to be fried in the pan.
So, when the first was dead after this number, they brought the second to make him
a mockingstock, and when they had pulled off the skin of his head with the hair,
they asked him, “Wilt thou eat before thou be punished throughout every member of
thy body?” But he answered in his own language and said, “No, wherefore he also
received the next torment.” And when he was at his last gasp, he said, “Thou take
a fury, thou like a fury take us thus out of this present life, that the king of
the world shall raise us up who have died for his laws, undue everlasting life.”
After him was the third maid of Machinistock, and when he was required,
he put out his tongue, and that right soon, holding forth his hands manfully and
said courageously, “These I had from heaven, and for his laws I despise them; and
from him I hope to receive them again, in so much that the king and they that
were with him marveled at the young man’s courage for that he nothing regarded his
pains so he cut out his own tongue and then he held out his hands for them to
cut off
now when this man was dead also they tormented and mangled the fourth in the like
manner so when he was ready to die he said thus it is good being put to death by
men to look for hope from god to be raised again by him. As for thee thou shalt
have no resurrection to life. Afterward they brought the fifth also and mingled him.
They looked, then looked he unto the king, and said, Thou hast power over men, thou
art corruptible. Thou doest with thou wilt, yet think not that our nation is
forsaken of God. But abide awhile and behold his great power, how he will torment
thee in thy seed.
Him “After him also they brought the sixth, who, being ready to die, said, ‘Be not
deceived without cause, for we suffer these things for ourselves, having sinned
against our God. “Therefore marvelous things are done unto us, but think not thou
that take us in hand to strive against God, that thou shalt escape unpunished.” Now
Antiochus, whilst the youngest was yet alive, did not only exhort him by words,
but also assured him with oaths that he would make him both a rich and a happy
man if he would turn from the laws of his fathers. And that also he would take
him for his friend and trust him with affairs. But when the young man would have
no cause harken unto him, the king called his mother and exhorted her that she
would counsel the young man to save his life. But she spake in our country language
on this manner. I beseech thee, my son, look upon the heaven and the earth, and
all that is therein, and consider that God made them. Fear not this tormentor, but
being worthy of thy brethren, take thy death, that I may receive thee again in
mercy with thy brethren.
While she was yet speaking these words, the young man said, Whom wait ye for? I
will not obey the king’s commandment, but I will obey the commandment of the law
that was given unto our fathers by Moses, and thou that hast been the author of
all mischief against the Hebrews shall not escape the hands of God. For we suffer
because of our sins, and yet though the living Lord be angry with us a little
while for our chastening and correction, yet shall he be at one again with his
servants. But thou, O godless man, and of all other most wicked, be not lifted up
without a cause, nor puffed up with uncertain hopes, lifting up thy hand against the
servants of God, for thou hast not yet escaped the judgments of Almighty God, who
seeeth all things.
For our brethren, who have now suffered a short pain, are dead under God’s covenant
of everlasting life; but thou, through the judgment of God, shalt receive just
punishment for thy pride. But I, as my brethren, offer up my body and life through
the laws of our fathers, be teaching God that he would speedily be merciful unto
our nation, and that thou, by torments and plagues, mayest confess that he alone is
God, and that in me and my brethren the wrath of the Almighty, which is justly
brought upon all our nation, may cease.
Then the king, being in a rage, handed him worse than all the rest, and took it
grievously that he was mocked, so this man died undefiled, and put his whole trust
in the Lord.
So not only did they not care after seeing the others die before them,
but his mother, their mother even
exhorted them to do it because they understood that there’s more to this life and
Or there’s more after this life,
so the next
Categories separate ourselves from Babylon Joe Smith in history of the church said
when I contemplate upon all things that have been manifested I am aware that I
ought not to murmur and do not murmur only in this That those who are innocent are
compelled to suffer for the iniquities of the guilty And I on account for this,
only on this wise, that the saying of the Savior has not been strictly observed. If
I ride I offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it off from thee. Or if I ride arm
offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee. Now the fact is, if any of the
members of our body is disordered, then the rest of our body will be affected with
it, and then all are brought into bondage together.
And then another apographal book called Ecclesiasticus.
He says, “Who will pity a charmer that is bitten with a serpent, or any such as
come nigh wild beasts? So one that goeth to a sinner, and is defiled with him in
his sins, who will pity? He that treacherous pit shall be defiled therewith, and he
that hath fellowship with a proud man shall be like unto him.” And then in 2nd
Nephi, he says, “Behold all you that kindle fire that compass yourselves about with
spark. Walk in the light of your fire and in the sparks which you have kindled.
This shell you have of my hand, ye shall lie down in sorrow.” So he’s saying, “If
you surround yourself with dangerous fire, he is not going to have mercy on you.”
And another way to separate from Babylon is to stop worshiping idols. Isaiah
describes idols as “workmanship of their own hands, that which their own fingers have
made.”
And Nephi says, “Wherefore do not spend money for that which is of no worth,
nor your labor for that which cannot satisfy. And how often do we spend money on
things that we don’t need such as televisions and Big Macs?
Joseph described hell saying, “And God hath decreed that all who will not obey his
boys shall not escape the damnation of hell what is the damnation of hell to go
with that society who have not obeyed his commands
third category I’d like to go over is being free from ignorance Joseph Smith’s in
history of the church volume For a man is saved no faster than he gets knowledge,
for if he does not get knowledge he will be brought into captivity by some evil
power in the other world, as evil spirits will have more knowledge and consequently
more power than many men who are on the earth. Hansen needs revelation to assist us
and give us knowledge of the things of God.
D &C 95, “They who are not chosen have sinned a very grievous sin in that they are
walking in darkness at noonday, meaning they are walking around in ignorance when
there is much light around them. You can see 131,
it is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorance.
And then in the times and seasons, Joseph Smith says, “If a man learns nothing more
than to eat, drink, and sleep, he does not comprehend any of the designs of God.
The beast comprehends the same things. Knowledge saves a man, and in the world of
spirits, no man can be insulted but by knowledge. So long as a man will not give
heed to the commandments, he must abide without salvation. If a man has knowledge,
he can be saved, although if he has been guilty of great sins, he will be punished
for them. But when he consents to obey the gospel, whether here or in the world of
spirits, he is saved.”
Says again, “Knowledge does away with darkness, suspense, and doubt, for these cannot
exist where knowledge is. There is no pain so awful as that of suspense. This is
the punishment of the wicked, their doubt, anxiety, and suspense causing weeping,
wailing, and gnashing of teeth. In knowledge there is power, God has more power than
all other beings because he has greater knowledge.
And how often do we hear people not wanting to know about something because they
don’t want to face the consequences of it?
And that is another thing. Once we gain knowledge, we have to live by
it is good if they harken unto the councils of God.” Joseph Smith in history of
the church volume 2, “We take the sacred writings into our hands and admit that
they were given by direct inspiration for the good of man. We believe that God
condescended to speak from the heavens and declare his will concerning the human
family, to give them just and holy laws, to regulate their conduct and guide them
in a direct way, but in due time he might take them to himself and make them
joint heirs with his son. But when this fact is admitted that the immediate will of
heaven is contained in the scriptures, are we not bound as rational creatures to
live in accordance to all its precepts? Will the mere admission that this is the
will of heaven ever benefit us if we do not comply with all its teachings?
Do we not offer violence to the supreme intelligence of heaven when we admit the
truth of its teachings and do not obey them. Do we not descend below our own
knowledge and the better wisdom which heaven has endowed us with by such a course
of conduct?
Begging Nephi but woe unto him that has the law given, ye that has all the
commandments of God like unto us, and that transgresseth, and that transgresseth then,
and that wasteeth the days of his probation, for awful is his state.”
Are you unmediated, Carmen?
Yes. Yeah, just go ahead, yeah.
about three slides ago there was one word in there that and it was at the bottom
of the paragraph this one and it says about obeying and the word is all a l l
let’s see can you get that? And it says about obeying all the commandments.
I think that’s too far back.
I thought it was close to the bottom. Maybe it wasn’t, but
whether Is it here where it says, “Obey all the commandments”?
I think it was back here.
I don’t know. That’s okay. Just go ahead and get it. That’s okay.
It is such a small word consisting of only three letters,
but it’s something that I think that we just kind of float by it all it’s teaching
there it is right it’s actually in the middle will the mere admission that this is
the will of heaven ever benefit us if we do not comply with all its teachings and
I think that’s literally there gets just glossed over at times,
because we can say, “Oh yeah, I’m doing really good.
I haven’t killed anybody yet, so you know, I’ve perfected myself in that respect
there, and I don’t make it a habit to you know,
lie or do all those other things.” But there are so many commandments that are not
in the 10 commandments that have been given to us in this dispensation.
And that little three letter word is probably more important than any other word
there and that is all.
And I am very grateful
that this is given to me personally, to get me further along to where I really
want to go to be, that I may have the Lord’s confidence.
It’s that word “all.” Just the thought. Okay,
I’m muting myself, I think.
Thank you.
So last one I wanted to go over is being concerned for future generations.
Don Taylor in Journal of Discourse of 20 said, “We do not want a posterity to grow
up that will be ignorant, depraved, corrupt, and fallen, and will depart from every
principle of right, but one that will be intelligent and wise, possessing literary
and scientific attainments, and a knowledge of everything that is good, praiseworthy,
and intellectual and beneficial in the world, and become acquainted with the earth on
which we stand, and the elements of which it is composed, and by which we are
surrounded and know how to control them and manage them and how to put to the best
use everything that comes within our reach and above all other things teach our
children the fear of God in volume one he says we do not want outside folks to
teach our children do we i think not we do not want them to teach us how to get
to heaven do we if we did it would be of no use for they do not know the way
well Well, then do you do? Well, then we do not want them to tamper with the
minds of our little ones You will see the day that Zion will be as far ahead of
the outside world in everything pertaining to learning of every kind as we are today
in regard to religious matters You might you mark my words and write them down and
see if they did not come to pass We are not dependent upon them, but we are upon
the Lord. We did not get our priesthood nor our information in regard to his law
from them. It came from God. The world professed to know a little about what they
call science, literature, and the arts. Where did they get their knowledge of these
things from? And what does it they really do know? They know something about the
laws of nature. Who made those laws? God made them, and he knows how to govern
them. And it is is all mighty power that they are governed. In volume 24 he says,
“Whatever you do, be choice in your selection of teachers. We do not want infidels
to mold the minds of our children. They are a precious charge bestowed upon us by
the Lord, and we cannot be too careful in rearing and training them. We need to
pay more attention to educational matters and do all we can to procure the services
of competent teachers. Some people say we cannot afford to pay them. You cannot
afford not to pay them. You cannot afford not to employ them. We want our children
to grow up intelligent and to walk abreast with the peoples of any nation. God
expects us to do it and therefore I call attention to this matter.
And let our children be taught by our friends and not our enemies. Latter -day
Saints, will you send your children to be taught of people who would teach them
enmity to their fathers and mothers, and who would sow in their young hearts the
seed of enmity to the principles of religious liberty, men who, if they had the
power, would destroy the altars of freedom that the fathers of this country fought
for. We do not want our children to be instructed by persons whose mission among us
is to endeavor to instill into their young hearts enmity to the Gospel of the Son
of God, as revealed by him through his servant Joseph Smith. We have men quite as
capable to teach as they are. We stand on a platform as elevated as theirs, and in
a great deal more so. And by and by we expect to be as far ahead of them in
science, art, and literature, and everything calculated to a noble and exalted people
and a nation, as we are now ahead of them in regard to religious matters. But as
to their religious matters you may wrap up the whole of them in a thimble and put
it in your vest pocket and hardly knows there Any ten -year -old boy of ours who
could not meet any of their ministers on matters of religion. I should consider very
ill -informed.
I would say nowadays almost no one in the LDS Church could argue on anyone of
religion, let alone a 10 -year -old boy. Well, it is for us to keep the
commandments, to train up our children in the fear of God, to live unto God, and I
will risk the balance. Amen.
So I think this is, these are four very crucial things we all need to be working
on them. And I’m not saying I have completed all them.
I don’t think I’ve completed a single one. But
these are very important.
In Isaiah 59 he says, “But the Lord’s hand is not shortened that it cannot save,
neither is ear heavy that it cannot hear. But your iniquities have separated between
you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not
hear. For your hands are defiled with blood and your fingers with iniquity. Your
lips have spoken lies, your tongue hath muttered perverseness. None calleth for
justice, nor any pleading for truth. They trust in vanity and speak lies. They
conceive mischief and bring
“In,” second Peter, he says, “there shall come in the last days scoffers walking
after their own musts and saying, ‘Where is the promise of his coming?’ For since
the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the
creation. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the
Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years is one day. The Lord is not slack
concerning his promise, as as some men count slackness. It is long suffering to
usward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”
So the Lord has not come because we have not come to repentance.
Very young in journal of discourses says, “I admit that the Spirit of the Lord
should give us understanding. What would it prove us? It would prove to me at
least, And what I may safely say to this congregation, that Zion is here. Whenever
we are disposed to give ourselves perfectly to righteousness, to yield all the powers
and faculties of the soul, which is the spirit and the body, and it is there where
righteousness dwells. When we are swallowed up in the will of him who has called
us, when we enjoy the peace and the smiles of our Father in heaven, the things of
his spirit, and all the blessings we are capacitated to receive and improve upon,
Then are we in Zion that is Zion what will prove the opposite Harkening and giving
way to evil Nothing else will
and when Jesus came to the Americas he said and blessed are you and men shall
revile you and persecute you and shall say All men are evil against you falsely for
my sake Barely, barely I say unto you I give unto you to be salt the salt of the
earth. But if the salt shall lose its savor, wherewith shall the earth be salted?
The salt shall thenceforth be good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be
taught an underfoot of men. Verily, verily, I say unto you, I give unto you to be
a light of this people. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hid. Behold, do
men light a candle and put it under a bushel. Nay, but on a And they give us
light to all that are in the house, therefore let your light so shine before this
people that they may see your good works and glorify your Father who is in heaven.
But I don’t want to just be saying,
do all these things immediately because that would be almost impossible.
I’m saying we need to learn line upon line, precept upon precept, as the Lord
continues to tell us.
And I think that’s the end of it.
Be good. Be good. Okay. – That’s awesome.
So thank you so much, Moses. You can, I just,
even to this day, right? When I give presentations, I’m still really nervous. And I
remember when I was his age, trying to speak in front of people, stuttering a lot,
trying to, I had my notes in my pocket and trying to pull it out. And so I just
really appreciate the effort that Moses put into this because it was a presentation
that he put together on his own and shows four key areas that are really important
for us all that we are all working on if we want a free society and that we can
promote to others if they want to be part of a free society, the things that they
need to be a part of to be to be building to be actively engaged in building a
free society. And so that that price that God expects of us as we see through all
of that those examples of following correct principle no matter what and we can see
you know that those it there are circumstances where we’re blessed you know when
we’re protected from the consequences and there are times where we are you know that
we can be seen to be suffering physically now for an eternal reward later that we
have to have faith in and be able to follow those correct principles, no matter
what. So I’d like to open it up for discussion. Any comments, questions, thoughts on
the principles that Moses covered tonight. So we’ll put it,
I’ll get the unmuting. And yeah, Mark, go ahead.
Yes, obeying God’s laws, all of God’s laws is referenced here. It’s important that
we realize the term you just used principles is very important. There are laws that
are derived from God’s laws, but they’re consistent in principle. For example,
Congress passes a socialist bill like the Social Security,
and some people can see it as charity, but it’s not. It’s theft. And God made
clear the principle that theft is wrong. So it’s really important we only derive
from God’s laws the principle. And also authority,
be sure that whoever is making the law, they have the authority to do so, a godly
authority. Yeah.
Thank you, Mark.
Anybody else want to chime in well,
this is Mark again
We originally the topic for the night. Well, this is is still the topic is morality
Yeah, I think it’s really important people realize what morality is I mean, there’s
a difference some people use ethics and morality that terms synonymous to each other.
They’re really a little different, but for argument sake here, morality is fluid.
It changes through from one people to another, where ethics are not to do that. But
getting back to the point I want to make, morality is a code of values to guide
man’s choices and actions. So your presentation started out with talking about those
martyrs. those martyrs showed valor by uncompromising living the cold of values,
values of God’s laws. And I think it’s really important to realize what’s going on
in the world today, certainly in America. And that is men, less and less people
have values. And as what directs them is demagogic appeals,
the demagogue, emotions. And if you don’t have a, when you have a nature,
have a towards a vacuum, when there’s a vacuum of adherence and to guide to values,
a code of values, then what we’ll move in is things like emotions, demagogic
appeals, disinformation, a deceit. So there’s so much that’s lost if we don’t even,
hey, we have a COVID values, of course, what we’re talking about are godly values
tonight, because there’s also ungodly values. And, and one last point on that,
on the K -dollar radio show, she also often refers to it and suggests that only
conservatives or Republicans are ab -principle. And actually in America today,
we’re living the, what I call, I’ll call the leftists, the status collectivists,
Marxists, they are more principal because they’re more true to their values, a theft
of charity and so forth, and the others are less so. They’re sometimes to embrace
liberty and sometimes they embrace charity. So it’s really important that we
understand the importance of coda values and adhere to it and understand the right
code of value, God leave all.
– Yeah, yeah, unfortunately there’s too many people that are just, they’re dedicated
to whatever makes life comfortable. And so they’ll move and sway from one idea to
another just to avoid controversy or avoid trouble. – Yeah, well, some of the values
that they hear too, it’s really obvious, it’s hedonism and not listen to someone
said, narcissism, but at a lot of times it’s just the putting the finger in the
wind, whatever democracy, whatever the tribe says we need to be doing.
Okay, Joyce and then Samantha and Dan. Yeah, that was just a really good reminder
about, you know, do I really do what I say because I want to die for my country
and for the gospel and for Jesus Christ. And yeah, I will
watch a show I shouldn’t, let’s say. And nobody’s even torturing me. And I’m just
really looking at myself tonight. That’s important, right? Because these things are
inseparable. I think that’s something that Moses laid out Very well is that there we
can’t say that we want to They we shouldn’t say that these are separate, you know
that the the the principles of liberty the the principles of Christ and the gospel
Those should all be intertwined and thought of as the same exact thing Yeah Samantha
or Dan Yeah, it’s me. Yeah, so yeah earlier on Moses.
You’re talking about how in the court of Joseph Smith how we can’t be saved in
ignorance and I don’t this is something that’s hard right because nobody thinks
they’re ignorant like maybe some people you know admit oh I’m a dits or whatever
but most people think that they’re pretty well versed on what’s going on no one
wants to admit that they’re ignorant so what do you guys find is the best way to
lovingly or helpfully point out or just encourage people to confront some ignorant
thoughts or just where they just lack knowledge. Is there a way? I know it can
depend on the person, but are there tried and true ways to help people overcome
this and be willing to look at it?
Most do you have any thoughts?
Not willing to admit that your ignorant is a form of pride, so I
don’t know overcome that pride Yeah, Mark, you get your hand raised. Do you have a
comment on that? Well, first of all, what we’re just pointed out. It’s a sin and
it can lead to damnation So that should be a motivator, but this is something
little children must be taught, taught that when you make it, you make an error,
acknowledge in it, and to not acknowledge that is a horrible denial of reality.
It’s a horrible way to go through life denying that error.
So we have to get that message across and accept it. And, you know,
how many billions of examples can we give? You know, two and two is not six. It’s
two. The wall behind you there, Moses, exists. We have to use reality and in a
child, whether they’re 68 years old or they’re three or four years old, we got to
get that message across. It is the right thing to knowledge there as it is the
right thing to knowledge. Good goodness. And as Moses points out,
the pride issue is, you know, if somebody has that pride, we’re not willing to
recognize their ignorance. There’s not a whole lot we can do. And so with me,
like just a given example, and we talked about this yesterday, Samantha, I was at a
birthday party and in a little side conversation and somebody,
they were talking about how, you know, the great things that Trump and the RFK were
doing to bring health, you know, things back and help freedom back. And, and I’m
just, you know, sitting there in my mind, I don’t want to be the guy that poops
into everybody’s punch balls. I don’t mean crass, but, right, I don’t be like,
actually, like always just correcting everybody. And so I kind of like, you know, I
just let them have their conversation. And, and then somebody asked me, they’re like,
Well, what do you think? And I was just like, you know, just, I don’t think you
want to hear what I have to, and they’re like, No, no, no. And so, And so I
explained them and so they’re like, wow, I never, and so I just went through, you
know, some key points that perhaps they hadn’t heard before to help them recognize,
you know, hey, maybe I did that is information that clearly, if we know something
that’s like maybe interesting that they’re like, oh, I clearly didn’t know that. And
so clearly because of that, there was things that I can learn still. And so maybe
you can point in a direction where I can learn more. And so I think the way that,
A, the person has to be willing. If they’re not willing, there’s nothing we can say
or do. It’s just the way it is. And then make sure that we’re doing it in a way
that’s loving and not snobbish or condescending would be my thoughts. We got lots of
hands. – Yeah, and can I comment on that just so quickly? One is we need to value
people acknowledging their errors or and so when they do that we need to respond in
a way to show them that that was an honorable thing you just did and and and also
of course Marvela too for for them you know Joyce and Rod I love your illustration
there you story told the about what happened to you. And that is exactly what I’ve
studied over the years about how to convert people to funeral liberty. I tell
stories. And that really, and also about my faith too,
like, nobody’s offended when I tell them a story about even this past week, I was
asking the Lord, no, last week, the, to help me pray always, because I didn’t
really know what that was and I wanted to experience that and I had an amazing
week communing with the Lord and building my relationship with him and so that’s
just an illustration that maybe people would find not offensive and compelling. Yeah
Rod.
Well I want to address Samantha’s question directly and I think you know,
in order to be able to address those things with people, we personally have to be
seeking knowledge,
because that gives you opportunities to share things. A lot of the time,
I mean, we acknowledge that we’re not the ones that are the source of wisdom,
right? There’s so many people out there who were, though, Benjamin Franklin and all
these others who just filled with wisdom. What was his name? St.
George Tucker and people like that, right? Just amazing stuff that they wrote and
they thought about. And when you study these things and the spirit testifies that
they’re true, you see that wisdom, you can share that stuff with others. And They’re
not feeling like personally confronted or insulted by you acting like you’re better
than them because they didn’t come from you, came from somebody else number one. And
so it’s a little you’re just kind of passing along like here’s something I learned,
right? But also again, just the fact that you are seeking knowledge, then it fills
you with those answers that you can share with people when it comes up. Yeah, I
think being self -deprecating sometimes when it’s appropriate is is helpful as well
right that going back to recognizing Hey, I’m not you know The arbiter of all
wisdom and truth myself and then kind of maybe point out something that you did
that was you know Something that so to help break down that you’re not just
claiming to be the know -it -all Yeah, Samantha Yeah,
that’s I was thinking about I appreciate everybody’s too sense on that because I was
thinking about what really impacts me and has helped me is to be around people that
I know are principled and a lot of times these people that I admire will say
something like, you know, I have a long way to go on this and they show their
humility, even though I know they’re like tons better than me and actually better
than most people around, But when they say that and when and when you model that I
think the modeling humility and and Showing that you don’t always know everything and
there’s things that you obviously in Moses did that like I’m I’m not perfect at
this But the point is no one is when none of us are Christ But we’re still
supposed to lift each other up and and help you know motivate each other to do
better So I think when you like you’re saying the self -deprecation, I think when
you are sincerely humble in your desire to know better and do better and admit it,
like in some areas, I don’t quite know that yet, but I’m looking into it and I
think that’s really valuable. Because if people think you’re a know -it -all,
it really, you kind of tune them out. But if they know that you’re humble and
seeking like you are, then you can relate and and it’s it’s more inspiring I think
yeah for sure appreciate that question mark you got your hand up yes um eagle human
humility pride they are all relegated to the trash heap if you value knowledge
enough the big problem is not adequate value of knowledge. If you adequately value
of knowledge, then it makes logical sense that you’re willing to debate, you’re
willing to search out the knowledge, you’re willing to have it stand up to logical
analysis, you’re willing to stand up to godly principles. This is academia,
this is what used to go on, it doesn’t go on to the extent it should be today,
is that we seek out knowledge for the sake of knowledge and and if you value
enough you you will of course put aside your view and and seek out what’s true
using logic and and and moral principles as a guide what I see a lot of people do
these days where I really had an intellectual age now a post intellectual age where
they jump to conclusions without having a logical basis for it.
This is extremely important that we not accept that. If you have an assertion,
you’ve got to make a logical argument to it. So it’s our standards of holding
knowledge high and that process is necessary to And what is reality what is
knowledge is really important. Thank you, Brittany. Yeah, go ahead
Oh, sorry, no, Brittany, Brittany, then Linda go ahead. Okay Okay,
I was just gonna kind of bring it back to when I think was Carmen that brought up
Obeying all the gospel teachings or whatever We might not know what all of those
teachings are. You know, like, I think we have to kind of remember that, like,
everybody is learning all of that still. So, like, we’re all going to make mistakes
in those things every day. Like, we’re not going to be perfect yet. But I think,
and Jared made a really good point, we were just talking about it real quickly.
We’re all still trying to get out of Babylon. Like, and we need to know how to do
that. And by learning and gaining all this knowledge and becoming More knowledgeable
about those things in the gospel and in the world around us and in our liberties
And what’s been taken from us and just learning that’s how we’re doing it And we
have to just keep being diligent in that reminder of constant learning and constant
Growing and that we’re gonna get better and we’re gonna be better because of it and
that’s gonna just come in time and I’m super impatient person and so for me I’m
just like hoping like oh it’s just gonna happen like right away because I’m doing
what I’m supposed to be doing and but it doesn’t like we all have step backs we
all have days where we just don’t feel like doing everything that we’re supposed to
be doing and and that’s okay like we have to be reminded that like there’s a group
of us here we all have the same end goals we all have the same values and morals
that we’re trying to look for and be about and I think that uplifting and knowing
that we have people next to us that are doing it with us just kind of helps along
that journey and I think that it also kind of reminds us that if we’re still in
this process of learning, it’s going to be easier to talk to others. Just like Rod
said, like the more knowledge you have, the easier it is to have these
conversations. It’s easier for me to get up in front of my classroom and admit to
them that, yeah, I don’t know everything about this particular topic, but that’s
okay. I’m learning with you. And it makes me more human to a class of students or
a group of soccer athletes that we’re trying to teach. Like, I’m not perfect, but
I’m trying to get there, you know, like I think that that’s good for all of us at
this at this point in our lives Like on this journey together like knowing that
we’re not perfect Absolutely, I love what Moses pointed out and reminded us of of
that that, you know Preset upon precept right one one thing and upon another and
that’s something that I’ve noticed in my own life Is that when I’ve learned
something and then I try to apply it and try to like figure out? Okay, how do I
do that thing now then the Lord actually blesses with like okay new information how
to do things better and so it’s always when we when we try to learn something not
for the sake of learning but for the sake of doing as Moses pointed out as well
putting those two things together always helps that that slope so um linda and then
we’ll go back to to mark linda okay thank you uh i just want to say thank you
Moses for sharing what you did tonight, you really impacted me with a story that I
had never heard before and had never thought to the end of that situation if I
were in it. And that was the story about the three boys and then them turning
after the mother was watching all of this and her son was watching it and then to
turn to her and for her to support her son in being willing to to give his life
even under those hideous circumstances and that just that just really got me right
to my very heart and soul and I thought oh have you never heard it like that
before it through a whole new life and it makes me really have to do some deep
contemplation and evaluation, and thank you for sharing that. That was awesome.
It was horrible, but it was awesome.
Mark, go ahead. At first point, Moses, I answered the question not that you were
asking in your presentation on Concerned for Future Generations while Your father
introduced you to the Nandere Call of Conspiracy in 2012. Concerned about future
generation, in his case, this is a little offspring. But what is really also
important in acquiring knowledge is having the means to do so. Certain knowledge is
pretty easy to acquire, like there’s a grass yard in front of your house and so
forth. But other knowledge requires more tools. Logic is one of the most important
of all, and most people just give up on logic or don’t adequately understand the
laws of logic. But also, a scientific method is a value when you’re reviewing a
scientific statement, see if it’s valid or not. So, at least knowing the rudimentary
elements of the scientific method is really important. So we have to, we just can’t,
just reflecting on things that’s not adequate. We have to have the skills and
certain type of knowledge to before we can determine what is and what is not is
knowledge. Yep. Okay, thank you. We’re out of time. We’re going to go and close up
and we’re going to open form. But just want to remind everybody again to pick up
the new book and to, I’ve encouraged everybody to please pick up five copies and
distribute them. Make sure you use the promo code member to get your discount,
to be able to make that a little bit easier for you. But that is going to be
something we can hopefully all do that will make a big impact in making sure that
the book gets out, that the message gets out, and so that we can start to apply
these things and have more people live up to these principles that we’re trying to
build into society. So thank you all. Let’s have a closing prayer and then we’ll go
ahead and the open forum. Linda Stoll, will you say the closing prayer for us?
Sure. Thanks. Yeah. Our dear Heavenly Fathers, we can be fully this night.
We want to thank thee with gratitude in our hearts for the things that we have
learned tonight and for the discussions that we’ve been able to share. At this time,
we ask the Oblessus that we may take these things in our heart and that we may
strive to teach the things that we are learning and that we might be successful in
searching out those who are interested and want knowledge and who have to also have
the courage to follow through With the things that we learn We’re so grateful for
all of those who have shared with us tonight, and who have done research and are
willing to Help and teach and guide and discuss These things we pray for in the
name of Jesus Christ
