TRANSCRIPT
Spiritland, aren’t your kind and most Loving Father in Heaven, we thy sons and daughters,
thy children, from before they did this holy hour of the night to discuss the cause of liberty and to learn how we can depend that liberty and maintain it and restore that which has been taken from us.
We thank you Father for your blessings. with Pentech and his team and the efforts that they put into the research that will enlighten our minds to these truths and his principles that will help us to win this fight which we must win and we know that we can win without help,
whether we love it with all of our hearts, with all of our souls and with all of our minds and whether we desire to be less than two. to bring forward this work,
the work of freedom, the work of restitution of our constitution, and its original founding precepts and concepts, and teachings, and understanding, to the restoration of our hearts to that cause of liberty,
which our opponent bothers, who give us this great nation or aspire to do by their holy hand. I would like to thank people for all these wonderful things. and we pray Thy Spirit will guide our hearts and minds to hear the messages spoken and spoken,
that we might be worthy of Thy name and worthy to be called by servants. We pray for these blessings according to our faith in the sacred and holy name of Jesus Christ. Amen.
Thank you, Bobby. Go ahead, Carmen. Open the minutes for three of us. Liberty Society meeting for Monday, March 11th,
2024. The opening prayer was offered by Phil Jensen. Ben reminded us about the March 30th meeting in St.
George and about him teaming up with Kate Dally. Training for the night was step -by -step to victory. and we need to focus on presentations and why the principles catch the vision and don’t get trapped into what the conspiracy is serving.
Anything that takes away the legitimacy to Satan’s kingdom and moves us towards God’s kingdom. He talked about working with this particular lawyer.
and working on a two -pronged exposure, exposing the evidence and how they spy on Ben with no cause. He then said,
voiced his opinion that justice is not to be had in the courts. Ben said in dealing with the Satanic conspiracy,
the only thing to do is to go to war with them. The key principles of the Council of 50 in 1844 says that northerly government or kingdom,
dominion authority power rule or law shall be acknowledged by my people. people. Wayne Young,
oh, Ben asked for various ways in which how we can acknowledge a government. And there were very, there were quite a few suggestions.
One of them was supporting elected officials going to caucus meetings, putting stickers on I made a cut,
spoke a question of where do we draw the line, that we should be walking softly and carrying a big step. Ben said that there’s wisdom in each circumstances,
wisdom and folly on both sides. Alan C said that an open mind doesn’t mean that you condone evil. Then asked us which kingdom are we perpetuating?
And do we understand? We need to focus on the underlying principle. We don’t buy or sell death as a penalty.
This is Devis referring to that all of us in the world have to pay for it. people received the mark. And if you don’t have the mark, then you can’t buy or sell. I talked about federal reserve notes,
social security numbers filed in taxes. And Becky made a mention about having a birth certificate. And Ben asked,
you know, what happens if you don’t, it’s under the table, you get fined. If you don’t pay, you go to jail. What doesn’t work? What gives legitimacy to the system?
What does the spirit tells us to start with? We need to share understanding and we will build, share understanding, it will build exposure.
We must be a people. people to receive the blessings of protection. We have to have courage to do more. The Lord will open up the way to do impossible.
Alan C. announced that he had a guest named Terry from his state. Phil Jensen quoted scriptures Revelation 14,
9 to 11. and there was a discussion, a very fast discussion, about Ron Paul between Ben Allen and Allen.
Mrs. Wayne Young talked about the Mark of the Beast. And she realizes she likes Babylon, was courageous of her to admit that.
Thank you very much. since I think we all feel that way. We need a divorce from Babylon. And Denise Croft talked about Ron Paul again.
Ben said that this is all in several layers. The elections are fraud, and those who are elected are safe for the conspiracy.
The closing prayer was offered by by Linda Stowell. Okay, thank you. Does it have any questions or corrections or clarifications?
Okay, if not, then we’ll go ahead and accept those. Thank you so much, Carmen. Okay, I am ready now for the meeting. – Okay,
sounds good. Hopefully last week’s didn’t scare people off. Hopefully we get some more people coming on later on. I don’t think I’m gonna give them the excuse of yesterday being St. Patrick’s Day of why they didn’t show up today,
but hopefully we can, folks start coming on. And just wanna bring up again, we have our meeting on the 30th,
so that’s the last. last Saturday of the month down in St. George. Hope to see as many of you as can make it down there. It’ll be really good. And be able to spend some time together,
meet with you. Make sure and share it with your friends if you’re down in the area. Let them know about it and see if we can do it. It’s pretty limited seating. There’s only a total of 30 tickets.
I really believe that in the next week or so, probably by the end of this week. by Monday, at the latest, I think it’ll be sold out. So if you plan on coming, I encourage you to get your tickets. – Where is this being held?
– St. George. – I know. St. George is a big place. – Oh, oh. It’s at a, what’s it called, a clubhouse, you know, like one of those like communities,
like a community clubhouse in St. George. The address is at the TicketTaylor website. So if you don’t have in front of me, sorry. We’ll have we’ll have the tacos and get fed physically and hopefully mentally and spiritually and have some have some good things happen there.
Also encourage us all to make sure that we’re sharing the boot camps that we have on the on the class, I mean on the on the website. If you haven’t gone through those,
again, still working and finishing up the scripts and hopefully get those out shortly. Does anybody have any questions or anything we want to clarify from any of these things or anything we talked about previously before we get started?
Okay. Again, feel free to interrupt. anytime when I’m going through things or to Put any comments or questions in the chat. Let’s go ahead and get started Tonight,
you know, as always, I really hope that we have a lot of good conversation and discussion questions comments anything like that and I think it will be it’ll be really important and we will have some time.
I believe believe, before we’re done for the evening, we’ll have some time to discuss things in more detail. So please don’t feel like you, you don’t wanna slow things down,
make sure we get everything covered in the night. So just feel free to chime in. So again, always encourage us to, one of the things that we can all do throughout the week is to share the,
the boot camp with others. This tool is a really important tool for our efforts. It’s a 24 hour recruitment. It’s something out there to show people what we believe and what we’re working towards.
And so it’s always good to be able to meet with people face to face, but this is there 24 hours a day, seven days a week. It’s also good to be able to help people. understanding of great principles,
even if it’s not used as recruitment, it’s still good to be able to help build the understanding of more people. So the more people taking this, it’s just win -win all around. So we want to be able to make sure people know about this.
So tonight, I’m going to be talking about discerning a conspirator versus just a flawed individual. This is on the screen. asked about a lot. And so I want to go over some principles that I hope that we that makes sense and that we can use and utilize to in our efforts to you know,
distinguish between the two and what do we do? You know, is there a different reaction? Is there a different way that we treat, you know, the two different groups of people? And,
you know, hopefully it’s it’s something that helps us out. with this effort, right? Because, you know, there’s some things that we need to understand of how do we know where to draw the line? Because a lot of times a conspirator or a non conspirator will be pushing the same thing that a conspirator will be.
And so, you know, in some ways there’s not a whole lot of difference, you know, effectively in a conspirator versus a non conspirator. So, you know,
how do we… draw the line and how do we draw the line are some things that I want to get into. But the first concept to be able to really, I think that is foundational to understanding the line and where it’s drawn is in the concept of the paradox.
So, I think we’ve all heard the term paradox, but I want to, I’d like to get some of your guys. understanding of what is a paradox Love to hear your thoughts. What’s a paradox?
Go in two different directions with the same goal, but different outcomes Okay anybody else else who is that?
That’s Bobby Know the thoughts Well, I came first the chicken or the egg It’s a good example.
I mean, I Believe I know the answer but So I don’t think it’s really a paradox, but That’s that kind of idea sure So,
you know, just if you look at the the common definition of a paradox It is a seeming contradiction that there’s these two ideas that seemingly contradict each other But they’re both actually true Okay,
so that’s that’s kind of the broad definition of a pair of of a paradox these two seemingly contradictory things that are both true Even though you would think that they both couldn’t be true One of them is or both of them are false,
but you wouldn’t think that they both are true, but they are true That’s that’s a paradox Want to go through some scriptural examples of paradoxes and Romans we see therefore We conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law Okay,
so on one hand you see a scripture that says you know, doesn’t matter what you do, it’s you’re justified by faith. But we see in James, you see then how that by works,
a man is justified and not by faith only. So those are both true, but they seem like they’re contradictory. Matthew seven, because straight is the gate and narrow is the way which lead it to unto life and few there be that find it.
So tends to give the impression that it’s something that may be difficult, either difficult to find or difficult to do, but we see another scripture in Matthew.
It says that the Lord says that his yoke is easy, and his burden is light. So if it’s easy and light, why isn’t something that more people find? It seems like a contradiction.
Malachi says, “Bring all the ties into the storehouse, storehouse that thereby ye may be meet in that there may be meet in Minehouse and prove me now herewith say at the Lord of hosts.
So pay tithing and prove me that I will give you You know that this blessing will be yours and then we see the Lord say in Luke and Jesus answered unto him Satan It is said thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God So you have this thing that says prove me and another side is it says don’t tempt the Lord with his proving.
And so without broader context, without just on its surface, people going through this can say these are contradictory things. But even though there are seeming contradictions,
they are both true and they’re both essential to understand in their application. And so there are times that we can become so principled that we become unprincipled that can seem like a contradiction,
but it’s also a truth. Because if you know Weird Al, this is from one of the songs as well, I know that I’m a million times as humble as thou are. That’s not a very humble statement,
right? And then we have this one. It says libertarians passes a note to a libertarian. You’re not a real libertarian. And so these are just examples of, you know,
you’re becoming so weird. that you’re actually, instead of being principled, you actually revert back to putting personalities above principles. You know,
you’re saying that you, you know, this individual in this, in this, Jeff is saying that he’s more humble as if, you know, that’s, that’s your, the personality is you.
And so it’s, it’s, and then with the, with the libertarian, it’s not a the principle it’s saying that you it’s about the individual as opposed to the principle and so they’ve kind of gone in full circle of not being principled anymore because now they’ve made it about individuals.
Let’s see this is I don’t know how to get rid of this thing to block this anymore. So these are some truths that are used by the conspiracy to get us to accept evil.
evil. Okay, I want to kind of go through one of go through those. We have this first one is, you know, the conspiracy will get us to accept one of their evil programs,
because they say something like good, better, best or like, yeah, what you’re saying is the best. But, you know, maybe we need to work towards getting there. We need to do this thing. And,
you know, working towards doing better, right, is is not a bad thing. Doing something good is an improvement from doing something bad. That is that is true.
And if somebody’s gone from being bad to being good, even though they’re not the best yet, we should encourage that we should be glad that they’re that they’re improving. But the conspiracy uses that as a way to get us to accept it is it’s a they’re twisting,
you know, they’re saying, Oh, it’s good. good as opposed to it’s actually evil it’s something designed to get us towards evil as opposed to actually moving in the right direction and so yes it is it is it is it is a truth that is also designed we need to be aware of how it’s designed to get us to accept evil but just because it’s it’s used to get us to accept evil doesn’t mean it’s not true We do need you know,
we need to encourage people when they’re doing better Even if they’re not at their best yet There are ways that all of us need to improve and we’re not at our best yet. And so yes, absolutely We need to encourage people in that and not just shut them down because they’re not perfect yet Another thing the conspiracy says which is also true is don’t let perfect be the enemy of the good,
you know it’s similar along the same lines as of good, better, best. But again, they use it as a way to say, you know, you need to accept this evil. Otherwise,
you know, we’re never going to get to to the best. But it’s designed again to get us away from, from good. And or, you know, from good, let alone,
you know, best and perfect. And so we need to make sure that A, again, we’re not falling for this in the conspiracy use it,
but we also need to make sure that we don’t reject the concept as well. We need to make sure that we’re not shutting someone down simply because they’re not on the same page as us.
Does that make sense to me? Is this kind of is this? sounds contradictory. I’m hoping that the idea and the principles coming through. Any thoughts or questions as we move on?
I guess it’s just left up to seeing if we have the spirit so we can judge if the guy is being fake. fake or if he’s really gotten tensions that are,
are for the good. Yeah, but for the right kind of good. The right kind of good, right? Yeah, good versus a real good,
right? Yeah, because there’s some, the manipulation and the sheep and the wolves and sheep’s clothing has got me to the point. where I see a police officer and mind you I went to school to become a cop but now when I see a police officer I’m grabbing my wallet and wondering what the hell’s going to happen.
Yeah I’m the same way I’m like am I going to jail today if I see it you know if the cops following me for a while. But yeah I think going back to what your original statement was of the spirit I hope we you know that that is,
I don’t want to negate that because that is essential. That’s like one of the key, the key functions or key parts of this. But in addition to just saying, oh, just follow the spirit, there are some principles that we can,
you know, that will help us to be able to guide that around, right? Just for those of us that are LDS and you see in DNC 9 where the Lord chastises was Oliver Cowdery.
If I remember correctly, or is it Martin Harris? I think it was Oliver. He said that you just thought to ask, right? He was translating the Book of Mormon. He’s like, “You just thought to ask.
You didn’t study it out in your mind.” And so, you know, yes, we shouldn’t negate the spirit, but if we just say, “Oh Lord, tell me the answer,” you know, that’s not good either.
And so, we need to be able to I’ll be laying out some principles that help us to study it out. I hope Anybody else any thoughts? So both of these things,
right? This idea I want to just kind of re -emphasize is you know, when are we just turning somebody away? Are we rejecting? somebody because they don’t quite understand yet?
Are we rejecting them as a wolf in sheep’s clothing? Or are we, you know, shunning them because they’re being stupid, you know? I kind of bring up my faults in the past,
right? As a, you know, in my early days of involvement of volunteering for, you know, the Satanist and evil guy Bob Dole and George W. Bush when he ran for president. president the first time.
You know, if people weren’t patient with me to bring me along to understand correct principles and they just said, you’re an idiot, you’re supporting a globalist, you know, you’re either accusing me of being one of them or of just saying,
you know, you’re never going to be good enough, just, you know, we don’t want anything to do with you. You know, that’s a bad as well as, you know, that’s bad. bad, as well as it would be to accept a conspirator amongst us,
would be also bad. And so this is where I think a lot of people, it’s a lot of mental work, a lot of spiritual work, where we have to shun evil, but not shun those that are just ignorant.
And so it’s a big job. And so we want to make sure that we’re not doing that. So because while rejecting evil, we also have a duty to uplift and bring others along to righteousness and This can seem like a paradox.
It can seem like contradictory, but it’s you know, when we reject evil But somebody that’s doing evil, you know, we need to understand where they’re coming from and So in Romans chapter 15 verse 1 we read We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the world and not to please ourselves.
Let every one of us please his neighbor for his good to edification. For even Christ, please not himself, but as it is written, the reproaches of them that reproach thee fell on me.” Any thoughts on that scripture?
I’d like to get some of your ideas. Where do you think that we how where is that coming from what is this point what is he trying to explain to us nobody want to chime in okay so to me what he’s saying is that you know it’s we’re to bury each other’s bird bury each other’s bird right?
We’re not talking about just when we see somebody that’s frustrating us, not living up to a certain standard is pleasing us, and we just kind of get, we get rid of them, or we shun them in some way or cast them off.
But we’re supposed to infirm them in their weakness and take care of them in their weakness and help them along to becoming where we’re at. Romans 9 says,
“What if God willing to show his wrath and to make his power known, endured with much long suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction? And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy,
which he had afford prepared unto glory.” So the Lord does the same thing. He makes his power known, but he does endure with us, right? How much in our own personal lives is the Lord in with us through our stupidity and our mistakes?
But he bears with us as we seek to do better and that we seek to know and understand more and become more aligned with him. He seeks to bring us with him.
He says that, “How oft would I have gathered you in like a hen gathereth her chickens, you know, but but you would.” So he was kind of distinguishing a little bit there,
right? There’s a principle of, you know, as much as, you know, as stupid as you are, and as often as you scatter yourself, if you’re if you come back and you’re trying to do the right thing, I’m here for you.
But you won’t. So that’s that’s the key is you’re, you refuse to was, in my mind, some of the things that he, you know, was getting out there. And then the Doctrine and Covenants section one how do we do these things?
By kindness and pure knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the soul without hypocrisy and without guile, reproving the times of the sharpness when moved upon by the Holy Ghost and then showing forth afterwards an increase of love toward him whom thou hast reproved,
lest he esteem thee to be his enemy. What are some thoughts on that one? What do it? How do we apply that? I’m a bunch tonight That well that mark scripture people have read that to me numerous times.
It makes it makes me feel like the old Oh the song by All the Texas boy It’s hard to be humble if you demand principles and It’s easier sometimes sometimes to walk away even from your own family when they just,
when they just won’t listen, won’t participate, won’t pay attention. I don’t like that scripture because it messes up with agency too much.
And I don’t think you can get people unless you can really get their attention. I think it allows for agency because it’s telling you that, yeah, we have to be kind with them, we have to share with them truth.
And, you know, and then but there are times that we have to reprove the sharpness. So we have to kind of give them a little smack on the head, right? Be like, dude, don’t be so stupid. But then you follow that sharpness up with an increase of love so that they know that you’re not just dismissing them.
You know, it’s. it’s the law versus justice, it seems like to me of, yes, neither one can rob each other. You can’t do one without the other. It’s that paradox again,
where you have to do both the tough love and the niceness, the patience, the long suffering. But it’s,
with all of these things, it’s like everything we talked about before, we’re all the big, you know, solutions that we’re talking about, this is, the big picture is hard work. It’s,
this is, I would much rather just be like, you’re stupid, just, you know, to somebody and dismiss them and move on. That’s much easier. But I think that we’re being told to do something greater than that is with people that aren’t conspirators,
this is how we treat them, right? This is something, this is, this is the, Wanna аки Wanna Adding Oh,
this is the these are principles that I try to apply. I can’t I’m trying to think of an example, you know, my personal life. Where, you know, where we just as a principle where people will come,
where we will we will say something hard about somebody, like there’s a politician out there that will call out and people are very upset. with us, you know, for saying that. And then we will,
but we’ll just continue to just tell the truth and be patient, not be angry with them. And then about six months to a year later, we usually get a call or an email or a text saying, you know, I was really mad at you for saying that about so and so.
I think Mike Lee is the most common one that people get had gotten upset about us in the past, but they’ll say, you know, I’ve, you know, just I thought that was crazy but as time has gone on I saw that that you were correct Becky says that I did that with her Becky you want to chime in share that with us just kind of maybe in generalities if you don’t want to get specific um well there were a couple ones like
Tim Ballard I was really in the hand at the beginning and you burst my bubble And then when I started finding out about certain church leaders being in skull and bones,
that was hard to know. Because I made up all the excuses. Well, they repented, right? They did this, and you’re just like, no,
like, yeah, so I could just see in your mind, you know, going, why isn’t she getting this? so I burst your bubble, but how did I maybe follow that up with with,
you know, with an increase of love or with kindness or patience? Well, just, you know, helping me to walk through my struggle of grasping that like with Tim Bellard here,
I thought this man was so wonderful and helping stay chilling. “Chill, what better cause?” Right? Yeah. And so it was super hard for me to even fathom that he wasn’t who he said he was.
And I was donating to him and I thought in all of his books and read them and thought they were so wonderful. And so you were just, you know,
when I’d have questions. and you’d answer those questions in a way I didn’t want to hear them to be answered. And I was upset, but yet you would still just,
you’d still answer my questions. You wouldn’t be like, look, I already answered this one and that made you mad. And so anyways, just– – Okay, thank you, yeah. – Yeah,
I knew you were being patient with me. You weren’t like– There was no frustration shown. So I felt comfortable coming back and asking more stupid questions.
Oh, good. Sorry. Yeah, I’m in. Okay. Yeah, I just wanted to I know this has been a real struggle for me finding out all of these things.
things that I didn’t know. And I didn’t want to hear what I was hearing. But the thing that has been so helpful is when people say what they know and believe,
share it, inform us, help us, whatever, and back it up with evidence. And then instead of pushing the issue, giving us time and space to ponder that evidence and then have to come to those conclusions and find more evidence.
But when it’s done in that spirit of love and acceptance and we’re just trying to help you and all get on the same page so that we can be effective and not be ignorant,
it’s super helpful for me. that the evidence is just huge for me as bad as I don’t like it. It’s huge for me.
So I think that’s coming back and being kind and giving us some space to process. Great. Thank you. Thank you,
Linda. Carmen, was that the help answer your question? That’s what I wanted to hear. I wanted to to know if there was anybody within our group that went through things like that.
So now it comes to this, that everything that is told us in the Scriptures matches up with your experiences because you followed it.
You followed the counsel given in the Scriptures. That’s right. claim to be, you know, perfect at it, but yeah, hopefully these things guide us in what we do.
Yeah, and look what it’s done, Becky and Linda, and who knows who else is not speaking up at this meeting at this particular time, that they needed to hear other people say,
“Yeah, he was a hardhead and he was not nice to me, and I didn’t like it.” he said. And but I listened.
And I learned and I researched my own stuff. And it looks like what Ben was saying was true. And then the spirit probably came in to put the frosting on the cake.
So making it a little bit easier to accept what they didn’t want to hear. Yeah. And I was that way when Micah was,
he was throwing me these little pieces at me here or there and, you know, not giving me any opportunity to speak up and challenge him,
but these little bits and pieces. that Micah would ever so often say to me, it’s like okay,
I didn’t like it. I didn’t want to hear what he said. And I got out of his case because I don’t like him bad -mouthing anybody. I don’t care who they are and calling them names.
But as I progressed, I got out of his case. as the Lord put me in certain positions to where,
“Okay, I had no ammunition to fight back,” because there was no…
no ammunition, you know, uh, I still, Micah, don’t you dare bad mouth people. Don’t say bad things.
Then say facts and everything, but don’t be mean. But still, you know. Yeah. So I, you know, I had experience like that sort of with Micah.
He wasn’t too. loving about– – A little rough, a little rough around the edges. – A little rough, yeah. But, you know,
it’s good to hear from Becky and from Linda and I know that other people in this meeting tonight probably had experiences like that.
So it’s good to hear other people’s experiences saying, Hey, well, I’m not the low ranger. Right. Okay. Thank you. You know,
I think we just think about it, right? If we just only reproved the time of the sharpness. And that was it. That was the only part of the equation we had. What kind of a,
you know, effect would we have with, you know, with with more individuals? You know, there, people have asked me, what’s the best way to wake somebody up? And I in know I you know I I say that I don’t think there really is a best way because you have some people that are Only woken up with a good sweep,
you know kicking the rear end and you have some people that need a little bit more of a soft hand And so you need that spirit But I think a general rule we see here in these scriptures is is our patience with people and our love for people and You know being willing to speak hard things when it’s needed but to make sure that they know that they’re not our enemy and that we know that they’re not our enemy and
that they know that we’re not theirs. Thank you, guys. Appreciate that. And that gets into how we want to be treated and how we treat others, right? We we should all want correction.
I believe that that’s that is essential for all of our growth. Might be I don’t I hope I don’t offend anybody. But there’s, you know, this this crude statement is, you know, people. people think that their poop doesn’t stink,
right? There’s no amount of criticism is okay with them because everything that they do is wonderful. And that doesn’t lead to growth. You know,
I would hope that all of us have a, you know, an attitude of, you know, when I’m wrong, I need, even though it hurts, right? It’s uncomfortable, but I want to be corrected.
And so that’s, that’s a beginning stages for ourselves, and that helps others, what they see you in that example will help them be more likely to adopt that as well,
because we all feel bad when we’re chastised, but we also all appreciate being shown a better way. So these are some things that we don’t like being chastised,
but we also like it when we find a better way to do something. And, but at the same time that no one likes a know -it -all, even if they’re right, right? If they’re always this, if they’re just the guy that’s actually like,
no matter what anybody says, he’s got to correct them. It’s, it’s, it’s, these kind of people aren’t liked. And so, and so, but also for ourselves,
if there is a know -it -all in the audience, you know, or, you know, of where the know -it -all. before being offended, though, we should ask, even if their delivery was wrong, is the criticism true?
And so we want to make sure and be as loving to people, but not everybody else has that, you know, that personality and their their flaw with them. We need to be as being patient with others.
We should be patient with their flaw of not delivering things, you know, in the best way. way possible. And so, you know, to help ourselves find a better way and to be open to correction,
we need to look past maybe the way somebody said something and just ask, “Is it true?” And, you know, not necessarily the criticism about ourselves, but of course that should be, you know, of course about ourselves, but about our favorite,
you know, public figure, whether in government, religion, whatever it is, just be open to correction. because the person didn’t say it the right way, we should be humble enough to say, “Is it true?” Well,
however badly they delivered it, is it true? And so, if we can both deliver things as well as possible, as well as accept criticism,
because out, you know, there’s, there are people out there that are flawed in the way that they do things. We’re all flawed in some way. And so, but if we can be better in these things then we will be more effective in our ability to bring people along.
If if somebody that we’re trying to help we’re patient with them and when they’re inappropriate to us and we’re still patient with them that is going to open up doors.
They’re going to see that unless they’re a jerk and they’re just going to move on anyways and so that’s okay but somebody that’s just goofed up you know they’re they’re trying to do better and they just delivered things wrong. They’re wanting to do the right thing.
You’re patient with them, they’re going to see that and they’re going to appreciate it. And so we also have to recognize that there are two seemingly contradictory principles that we have to follow is reject evil and those knowingly pushing it.
That’s I think a key distinction knowingly pushing it we reject evil that is just it no if ands or buts about it evil is unacceptable but we have to help others overcome their evil so how do you do both reject evil and help people overcome the evil that we’re all engaged in evil of what we have to accept that just like we’ve talked about with you know being fooled by wolves and sheeps clothing We’re all going to
be fooled. We all are going to continue to be fooled, you know, and hopefully we decrease the amount of times that we’re being fooled. But the same thing with evil, right? We all have something evil,
meaning falling short of God. We all do that in some way or another. And so what we want to shrink that, of course, and we want to help others shrink the evil in their lives as well.
And so how do we reject it while accepting people that, of course, are flawed and evil in one way or another and helping them overcome it as some keys? And so we need to see what conspirator versus someone that needs our help.
There are going to be similarities. We talked about this before. And in effect, there’s a lot of things where there is no difference between a conspirator and somebody that’s been fooled by a conspirator. conspirator and promoting the conspiracies line or the conspiracies agenda,
right? They’re both they’re both going to say and do and promote evil things. I say that don’t we all do that to some extent. And so we need to be charitable to them,
to people that aren’t conspirators, right? They’re just not understanding where they’re being evil. And then but there are key differences and one of them is that one knows what they’re doing and are doing it on purpose and the other is either acting in ignorance or knows what they are doing and needs help doing better if they want it even if they wanted or not right so I think on that last one right we know that
we’re doing something wrong you know I will drink you know, I will consume things that I know that are bad for me, soda, candy, whatever, things that are bad for me.
I know that, but I do it anyway. So my conspirator or am I just somebody that falls short of my own standards and I’m trying to improve or sometimes if somebody says,
hey, you shouldn’t be drinking that. I get offended. I get mad. I don’t want to hear it. And so, you know, but it was still their duty to help make sure that I was I was doing better. And so,
you know, is the person we’re dealing with. Are they doing it on purpose? And are they trying to deceive? Are they meaning are they trying to do evil?
Or is it someone that is just ignorant or, you know, being weak in a moment? Those are some things that we need to understand because we do have to judge.
Thank you very much. And so the more information that we have and the closer we are to the spirit, the better our judgment is going to be. And we can’t be afraid to do the wrong thing,
like just do nothing, right? Paralysis by analysis is one of the sayings where we’re just going to study it out until we know what’s right, ever learning and never coming to a knowledge.
knowledge. We don’t want to do that, right, but we all, and so sometimes as we learn, we will make a mistake. It’s like when you learn to ride a bike or you learn to walk,
you’re trying to do the right thing and you fall down and you make a mistake. And it feels bad. You’ve getting embarrassed, especially like as an adult and you judge something wrong.
You get embarrassed and you get gunshot. You don’t want to do it again because you don’t. wanna get embarrassed again. But we need to get up and do it again and make another mistake. And then because each time you make a mistake, you can get better.
There was a guy, there was a video I watched where the guy says he’s successful because he always wants to be the dumbest guy in the room. And I think if we have that attitude of not being afraid to be the dumbest guy in the room,
where we’re okay with asking questions that we think everybody else knows we don’t wanna be the dumbest guy in the room. just dumb. And because if we ask the question, then we can learn.
And there are other people that didn’t ask a question but didn’t understand it either. And so you asking the question and being willing to stick your neck out will help you to do better in the long run.
But realizing we do have to judge and we have to act upon that judgment. judgment And John we see that judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment So we are commanded to judge and we need to make sure that our judgments are righteous though Right,
we need to ask ourselves and these are some hopefully some keys to help us to judge righteously a Question is are they a part of organizations that have evil as their stated objective?
That can help us, right? right? Because if an organization that you’re a part of is doing that, so you’re, you’re, you’ve signed up for a group that’s doing these things and that group of people says,
yeah, you’re our kind of guy. So that’s basically two witnesses that saying you’re, you’re probably a part of this, you know, this conspiracy. Do they surround themselves with those who are a part of said organizations?
So there have been presidents that like, say Ronald Reagan, for example, we’ve kind of gone through Ronald Reagan and how he wasn’t, he was a wolf in sheep’s clothing. He was himself was not a member of the CFR,
but his entire cabinet basically was CFR people. So that’s an example of you’re surrounding yourself with people that are bad news,
not you, but that individual. that you’re looking at to judge, they’re surrounding themselves with conspirators. That’s one way that’s another tool to help us. Are they part of organizations that only conspirators or conspirators or they’re approved by the conspiracy are allowed?
So just for example, like, you know, the US Congress, right, the only people that are allowed there are people that are, you know, either a part of it or the conspiracy is OK with them being there.
OK. Sorry. Is the individual that you have to make a judgment about? So we go through these things. And is there enough data to help us to make a righteous judgment to decide,
is this a conspirator that we want to make sure and set? You know, for our own protection, we separate ourselves from or and reject and try to expose in one way or another.
or another, or are they just, you know, innocently ignorant and need to be lovingly helped into correction?
Hopefully, you know, these are some tools to help us. But of course, as Alan said earlier, we have to have the spirit. Does the conspiracy ignore or shun them? So this one is kind of the positive,
right? If the conspiracy isn’t giving them the time of day. if the conspiracy is you know Shunning them keeping them out of the process, but they’re still doing bad things That’s more likely that kind of a person is going to be you know Innocent and is going to be somebody that we should work with and spend our time and effort in helping them to do and be better That’s our that’s our role with that kind of a
person So if they’re not a conspirator and if they’re not evil evil, that what doesn’t that mean? OK, that doesn’t mean that we excuse the evil that we do that they do,
right? We reprove them with sharpness. The Lord said that he rebukes whom he loves. He chastens whom he loves. OK, that’s that’s real love.
That’s not this counterfeit love that we see in the world today. We don’t excuse them. That is that is love, not excusing the evil that they do is showing them love. calling them out for it. And we also,
that it doesn’t mean that everything that they do is good or right. Just because they’re not a bad guy, doesn’t mean we can excuse all their behavior, doesn’t mean everything they do is good, of course. And it doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t be called out when they do something bad.
And it does not mean that they should be shunned, ridiculed, or cast out when they do wrong. You know, there’s a difference between ridiculing ridiculing someone and you know and calling them out.
Just kind of give you a you know a small example bringing it down maybe to a family level and we can apply that maybe on the bigger level right. You have a a child that you know drops something makes a mess.
Now do you just scream at them and tell them that they’re stupid and that they’re worthless and no good? Or do you say oh man you know we need to do better that that was wrong you know you were you weren’t paying attention. You weren’t being careful.
And so let’s make sure that we do a better job next time. So you’re pointing out what they did wrong and, you know, maybe finding a way for them to improve next time so it doesn’t happen again. Those two kind of approaches,
if the person is teachable and willing to learn, they’re going to have much different results. You know, they’re not going to be scared to be around you because they know that you’re going to lovingly bring them to a correct way of life or a way that’s going to make a better way of doing things.
And if they’re not a conspirator, though, it does mean that we have a duty to lovingly correct them, that we should encourage them in their good actions, and that we should patiently bear with them and work with them as they are willing and open to being worked with.
You can’t force people to go in a certain way. A man convinced his will is of the same opinion still, right? right? And so through our loving patients,
we will, you know, hopefully they’ll be open to being corrected and being, you know, and helping them improve. And so we can see clear differences in how the Lord treats the two different sides,
a conspirator versus a non -conspirator. We see here, this is a picture depicting, was it Elijah? Elijah and the priests of Baal right after. So in this story in the in the Old Testament,
you have the leaders of the church, the Jews of the time, the the Old Testament church. The leaders of the Old Testament church were the priests of Baal,
and they were teaching the members of the church to worship idols. Okay, these were bad people. people. I say it comes along and says or was no,
is Elijah. Sorry, Elijah comes along and they have these two piles of wood and they’re like, you know, our God, you know, the true God or your God will be decided on if this pile of wood will light on fire.
And, you know, the the. The priest of Baal, the leaders of. the church of God at the time, were trying to,
you know, they were praying to Baal and trying to get him to light the fire. And then Elijah comes along. And he’s like, you know, making it as difficult for God to do his work as possible to prove it,
right? He pours water and soaks it just barrels and barrels of water on the wood. And then he commands fire from heaven and through the power of God lights.
the one on fire. So these priests of Baal were the leaders of the Lord’s church at the time, but they were bad people.
So what did Elijah do to them? They were killed. They got the elders of Israel together and killed the priests of Baal. So that that was a result that that was the reaction to these evil people.
people then we have here Nephi Laban he was the holder of the plates He was a leader in the church at the time who else would have acts who would be the one that was you know Safeguarding the scriptures at the time it would be a leader of the church But God commanded Nephi to kill him He said that you know it is better that one man should perish than a nation should dwindle and unbelief and So this is is what,
you know, this is, I guess, the extreme example of of the reaction to evil people. Right. But then on the other side,
we have people doing bad things that the Lord didn’t have this result to. We have this is the example of Eli, the prophet Eli, where he was the prophet and he was, you know,
the protector and garter of the temple. And he allowed his son. able to kill Eli,
just let him live out his life, even though he had done bad things because he wasn’t a conspirator, right? He was doing bad things, but that he wasn’t a conspirator.
We have here another prophet, Jonah, where he rejected God’s word to so much to such extent, right? He ran away from God, and he, you know, came to a point where,
you know, he had to be swallowed by a whale to do what God told him to do. So he flat out rejected God’s command. but God did not kill him, did not have him kill.
He bore with him patiently until he did the job that he was supposed to do. And I would say maybe swallowing him by a whale might be an example of reproving sometimes with sharpness, right? That’s a pretty hard thing for him to have to go through.
But the Lord was patient with him until he did his job. And then we have also we have Paul. Paul? Was it Paul? No, it was Peter. was Peter. Sorry Peter who was an apostle of Jesus Christ and Denied the Savior he looked denied Christ three times Did God have him killed for being evil?
No, he bore with him patiently and he became a great leader of the church and So we have to see that. Yes, there are times There are individuals that you have to treat as enemies but there are also individuals that are not conspirators that are we need to bear with patiently with long suffering.
And so we need to understand that. So we have this paradox that we have to adopt, where on one side we have to throw a cloak of charity. And that if we do that,
then our sins will have a charity of a cloak of charity covering them, but we also. have on the other side in Alma, the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance.
So do we not do we not look upon sin with any allowance or do we put a cloak of charity over it? The answer is yes, both. And I think a lot of times,
you know, our our our thought processes are I would say I’m going to speak maybe sharply or is immature. immature. And because of that immaturity, we cannot see the distinction between the two.
We see these two truths as contradictory and we get frustrated. And we get we say that one of them is false when they’re when they’re when neither one of these is false. They’re both true.
We cannot allow wickedness in any degree. But we also need to have a cloak of charity over those that are not evil. that are trying to do the best that they can,
and sometimes maybe not trying to do the best they can, but they’re there’s something that the Lord can work with that we can and that we are commanded to work with with patience and diligence. And so,
you know, going off and again, reminding us that these these solutions and these tools are brought out more in detail in the book’s invasion and killing no murder to help us to understand these things.
things. And so I hope as we’ve gone through this that we’ve been able to kind of really see that these seeming paradoxes are essential for us to being able to move forward and to bring people that are willing to do the right thing,
you know, that is hard work that, you know, that we can’t just dismiss somebody and not be a part of them because we have a different, duty to perform to help bring them along but also to use the spirit to identify Those that are truly evil and to do all that we can to rid ourselves and our civilization of them and so Appreciate the time that we’ve had.
I’ve we we’ve had some good discussion. We’ve just got it that minute left I’m glad we did it But I hope that most of you will be able to stay on for the open forum forum We can ask questions make comments to have their own all of your own thoughts with that but let’s go ahead and close up the official meeting and I’m going to ask Francie if you’d be willing to say the closing prayer for us if you can unmute
yourself Sure. Thank you. Sure Okay, our living heavenly father We thank you so much for being able to gather together as like -minded people or at least ones that want to do the right things Heavenly Father and we’re trying to mold ourselves into people that can do that in a better way.
We thank you so much for thy mercy and looking upon mercy and the way we make mistakes and keep them as they never were. May health be with them.
do that with other people also and help us to distinguish between those who are truly evil and those really that do have a desire to learn so that we can help them and help us also to be more moldable in that way’s father.
And we thank thee and place our faith in thee. all the people that are here tonight and in their lives and trying to do the right things. And we ask these things in Jesus’ name,
amen. Amen. Amen. Thank you, Francine.
